Angela looking at something in the flaming stairs.

James got a letter. From a dead person. Oh dear.

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KOIBITO
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Angela looking at something in the flaming stairs.

Post by KOIBITO »

When Angela talks to James in the flaming stars, did any of you notice what se was looking at first?
It's like a human behind a sheet, you can totally see the outline (?).
You can cind of see what it represents, just wondering if any of you notices it.
Sorry if it has already been posted ^^'



EDIT; The sheet has a big bloody stain between its legs too.
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Alessyl
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Post by Alessyl »

Maybe it's her dad's body. I don't think I've seen any other posts about this, so I'm sure you're safe.
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xarianaxanonymousx
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Post by xarianaxanonymousx »

I Think They've Had Topics On This Before But I Can't Remember. I Think It Has Some Kind Of Representation Of Angela's Feelings.
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Post by AgentX7k »

http://z-o-g.org/gallery2/silenthill/sh ... 9.jpg.html
http://z-o-g.org/gallery2/silenthill/sh ... 7.jpg.html
http://z-o-g.org/gallery2/silenthill/sh ... 7.jpg.html

Looks what they were going for with 'Abstract Daddy', figure under a sheet. Though separated since there are now two of them on separate walls, one for her and her father? Foreshadowing because she is about to share his fate.
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Post by Droo »

It's a female figure under a bedsheet with blood around her vaginal area. It's a visual manifestation of Angela's rape.
"Oh yeah, I've been here before
I can see it with eyes closed
Shadows that look like blood
Dead as far as the mind goes
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Lives in the mirror"
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Post by Alessyl »

I can see that now, thanks to those screen caps.
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Post by xarianaxanonymousx »

Ha Moderators To The Rescue :3
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Post by The Adversary »

>It's a visual manifestation of Angela's rape.
There's nothing to confirm that she was raped.
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Post by crucifix »

MMY wrote:>It's a visual manifestation of Angela's rape.
There's nothing to confirm that she was raped.
... but sexual assault of some kind is heavily implied.
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Post by The Adversary »

I disagree.

I'm having a less civil discussion at another Silent Hill forum, and there's no explicit evidence of Angela being sexually abused. Physically abused, yes.

SILENT HILL 2 SPOILERS

The line of dialogue that leads people to believe she was raped—"Or you could just force me"—isn't in the Japanese script, and the appearance of the Ideal Father, to me and others, doesn't depict a person being raped, but rather a person being attacked—as in Angela killing her father, or James killing Mary.

The fact that the creature's name is Ideal Father seems to be more indicative of it representing Angela killing Thomas. After all: Why would Angela's "ideal father" be one that is attacking her? Wouldn't it make more sense for her ideal father—one that frequently "beat [her] up"—to be a dead father?
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Post by amphreded »

I don't think people solely based the speculation that Angela was raped on the script, but rather the visual symbolisms.
Subjective, really. I myself would go with Crucifix that the sexual abuse was implied.
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Post by Droo »

The Abstract Daddy shows two figures reclining on a bedframe. Need I remind you what your gospel Chronicles say about the creature?
"Ideal father". On top of its bed-like form are two covered reclining figures. A symbol of Angela's past.
The sexual imagery is undeniable. They do everything short of coming out and saying "ANGELA WAS RAPED", and I think this is more out of a concern for good taste than anything else. Also note the fact that it attacks by jumping up on and trying to envelop you. It's a very intimate, invasive method of attack. Again, the sexual abuse imagery is obvious.

Also, Angela has all the mannerisms of a sexually abused child. She is mostly subservient, easily startled, and prone to outbursts of sudden hostility. There are enough context clues in the game to make me confident in my assertion that she is a rape victim, and the figure on the wall in this scene only serves to further suggest it.
"Oh yeah, I've been here before
I can see it with eyes closed
Shadows that look like blood
Dead as far as the mind goes
Fear that comes from my head
Lives in the mirror"
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Post by crucifix »

MMY wrote:After all: Why would Angela's "ideal father" be one that is attacking her?
"ideal father" could simply be an ironic name, considering the fact that he obviously did something to her. or it could imply the way that angela views him, despite whatever he did to her - victims of abuse often have mixed feelings about their attackers.

MMY wrote:Ideal Father, to me and others, doesn't depict a person being raped, but rather a person being attacked—as in Angela killing her father, or James killing Mary.
i don't see it, personally. the figure on top is larger, clearly muscular and dominating, as opposed to the one underneath.
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Post by ur-vile »

Not to mention the room with that Abstract Daddy boss fight. I'll have to disagree with you MMY on that one.
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Post by RiceDaddy7 »

Learn something new in this forum every day. As always, SH2 is a masterpiece.
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Post by AgentX7k »

crucifix wrote:i don't see it, personally. the figure on top is larger, clearly muscular and dominating, as opposed to the one underneath.
Bloody hell I need to pay closer attention to things, all I remember is a blob :P
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Post by Droo »

Image
"Oh yeah, I've been here before
I can see it with eyes closed
Shadows that look like blood
Dead as far as the mind goes
Fear that comes from my head
Lives in the mirror"
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Post by GioGio »

I never noticed that before
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/tzack/0212.jpg[/img]
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Post by The Adversary »

>Need I remind you what your gospel Chronicles say about the creature?
What does Lost Memories: Silent Hill Chronicle say to disprove what I've suggested?

>They do everything short of coming out and saying "ANGELA WAS RAPED"
Again, I disagree, otherwise this discussion wouldn't be happening.

>Angela has all the mannerisms of a sexually abused child.
Or a physically abused child.

>"ideal father" could simply be an ironic name
None of the other names are used sarcastically or ironically. Why would this be any different?

>the figure on top is larger, clearly muscular and dominating
You can't even see a figure on the bottom—how can you say it's not more muscular? Additionally, of course the "person" on the top would be dominating—it's responsible for killing the other. You don't get much more dominating than that.

Instead of telling me what I already know from playing the game—that I disagree w/—how about someone disprove what I've suggested w/ something more than "Well, it's strongly implied in the game" or "I have no doubt I'm right"? I understand that you believe Angela was raped, but the common argument against my suggestion that she wasn't is that a) the name Ideal Father was meant to be sarcastic—when it wasn't—and b) the opponents "just know" that she was raped (neither of which is proof).

And, still, no one has answered my question: Why would Angela's "ideal father" be one that is attacking her?
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Post by crucifix »

MMY wrote:None of the other names are used sarcastically or ironically. Why would this be any different?
because of the reasons i listed...

anyway, you're bringing up a good counter-viewpoint. but if she wasn't sexually abused, then what does the figure under the sheet represent? i don't see how you could point that to mere physical abuse, what with the blood where it is and the fact that it looks like a bed - much like the monster's design.
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