TWO New SH Games In Development??? (New SH Game Rumours)

Everything we know - and don't know, I guess - about all those Silent Hill rumours.

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The Adversary
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Re: TWO New SH Games In Development??? (New SH Game Rumours)

Post by The Adversary »

Hell, even Yuki is back?

What is this, 2009?
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Re: TWO New SH Games In Development??? (New SH Game Rumours)

Post by Yuki »

The Adversary wrote: 27 Sep 2022 Hell, even Yuki is back?

What is this, 2009?
Surprise!

It really seems like all the rumors and such have brought a bunch of us back.
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Re: TWO New SH Games In Development??? (New SH Game Rumours)

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>It really seems like all the rumors and such have brought a bunch of us back.<
I'll take it! And it's almost your 13th anniversary.
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Re: TWO New SH Games In Development??? (New SH Game Rumours)

Post by Droo »

Hopefully once the official reveal finally happens a bunch more old faces will return too!
"Oh yeah, I've been here before
I can see it with eyes closed
Shadows that look like blood
Dead as far as the mind goes
Fear that comes from my head
Lives in the mirror"
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Re: TWO New SH Games In Development??? (New SH Game Rumours)

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Except for Damien Pales.
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Re: TWO New SH Games In Development??? (New SH Game Rumours)

Post by Droo »

Well, yeah.
"Oh yeah, I've been here before
I can see it with eyes closed
Shadows that look like blood
Dead as far as the mind goes
Fear that comes from my head
Lives in the mirror"
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Re: TWO New SH Games In Development??? (New SH Game Rumours)

Post by jdnation »

Neat video here on what happened to most of the people who worked at Sony's Japan Studio
https://youtu.be/I-32ayyFomc

Turns out that of those who remained to become Asobi, the number is extremely small. Around 25 members.

However the most recent news puts them at 60-80 for their current project and looking to grow to multiple teams as time goes on, and even hiring non-local non-Japanese staff. The teams are taught and communicate in both English and Japanese, so it is a bilingual working environment.

https://www.sie.com/en/blog/studio-spot ... eam-asobi/

More likely they are doing a new Astrobot and PSVR2 stuff, but it sounds like there are enough people there that could also work on Sakura, though probably not SH5, except perhaps in a support role alongside XDEV staff.

XDEV is currently known to be assisting Team Ninja.
https://www.videogameschronicle.com/new ... the-ronin/

It is more probable that Konami's Metal Gear Survive ex-KojiPro people are on it, but all leakers imply that it is somewhere else in Japan. This really is a mystery.

It may be possible that ex-Sony Japan staff formed their own studio and contracted for it, perhaps were even involved with it originally if they were doing something at Sony before disbanding. But most if not all of the creative heads and leads at Sony seem accounted for at other places. It is a long shot that Toyama and Bokeh are doing two things.

For these reasons I still can't rule out Hideo Kojima being involved, as he is a significant gun-for-hire. I was hoping some announcement from his studio would hopefully either confirm or kill this connection, and that his project is still unannounced despite that we know his next thing has been in production, more hiring, and even recorded orchestral performances for it remains a mystery beside SH rumors really bores in my head... But it is also possible that that was for Kojima's expansion into filmmaking and other media, and the pictures he posts of more Hollywood people all point to a similar teasing for Death Stranding cameos.

So just who in Japan is working on SH5? Who???
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Re: TWO New SH Games In Development??? (New SH Game Rumours)

Post by Alexius Corvinus »

I don’t know. Cyber Connect 2? Koei-Tecmo? M-TWO? Grasshopper Manufacture? Toylogic? Heck, even Square-Enix. Dusk Golem said there’s multiple teams involved in these projects.

One of my predictions is that maybe CC2, Cygames, Toylogic, or SE is the main Japanese developer, along with Bloober, and getting help from some of Sony and Konami’s internal Japanese staff. Maybe Kojipro is somehow involved, but as support, just as they were with MercuryStream’s Castlevania reboot.
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Re: TWO New SH Games In Development??? (New SH Game Rumours)

Post by jdnation »

I considered Grasshopper, but I get the feeling that Konami and Sony want SH5 to be a visual showcase and revive the franchise in a big way. Grasshopper is punk af, but no top tier dev. Koei may have the Fatal Frame people on it, but I don't know about them...

I can't picture Square Enix being involved and they pump out games fairly regularly from their smaller teams. Kojima is really the only guy I can think of who'd willingly do it...

I'm sure there are also plenty of small unknown house asset farms around Japan involved, so maybe that is where the leaks spring from. But as for the main dev, Konami have pretty much stated they are outsourcing it. And that means they were likely accepting pitches, like the leaks of Bloober's demo.

The big guys like SE, and Koei are unlikely to do that. So that leaves the smaller and more independent studios.

CyGames does work with other publishers and IP, and did port Zone of the enders, so they are possible. But the bulk of their 3rd party work is mobile. The past few years of console work have been their own projects that still haven't come to fruition...
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Re: TWO New SH Games In Development??? (New SH Game Rumours)

Post by NanayaShiki »

It's still not confirmed that Sony is involved in any way, that rumor dates way back but is tied up in a lot of stuff that's been debunked. From what I've seen most people who have seen the leaks aren't familiar with who is making the next major new entry. Even if the "it's a Japanese studio" aspect does turn out to be real, keep in mind this is Konami we're dealing with here and what type of studios they've worked with before. We should probably aim a little bit lower than "the most popular studios out there". Expectations kept in check will lead to much less disappointment. I'd start looking at more mid-budget lesser known places if we want to guess.
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Re: TWO New SH Games In Development??? (New SH Game Rumours)

Post by jdnation »

True. There is no hard confirmation that Sony is involved; especially development wise. All the best alleged leaks point towards some kind of involvement only in funding/exclusivity deals. This is in line with what we commonly already know about Sony making any deal they can with everyone from Activision to Capcom and Square Enix. While they've shuttered Japan Studio, they have seemed to gone out of their way to make deals with Japanese pubs and devs, such as Team Ninja, and also other Asian territories such as Korea's Stellar Blade developer. So what would have otherwise been Japan Studio funding is no being spent on 2nd party-type deals. Konami may not be doing much with their top IP, but if they were, it is highly likely Sony has approached them too.

We do know that Japan Studio did work with 3rd parties like FROM on Bloodborne, so it's not too out there to think that some of Asobi alongside XDEV are also potentially helping Konami development-wise. There were rumors of SH being made internally at Sony Japan, but no idea if we can rely on that one...

Anyway, that doesn't help us narrow down the main lead studio.

To be fair, DuskG and others only said that SH was being made somewhere in Japan - this infers that the main studio could be Japan, but not necessarily, if it's only smaller houses involved in asset development in Japan, while the lead studio could be overseas, so we may be looking in the wrong place.

DuskG's leaks of what are Project Sakura, do suggest that Sakura, as the P.T. project is being made in Japan though. We know Masahiro Ito is involved, and he's more Japan-centric in his resume. Given the concept art leak, we know he is involved in Sakura. It is not confirmed if he is involved in SH5. But it's not too far a leap to believe that whoever is doing Sakura is involved with SH5 and that there will be some ties between the projects that require a good degree of collaboration.

As Nanaya said, we ought to rule out the big popular studios (Square Enix, Capcom, SEGA etc.) and settle on the more AA teams who are more likely to try and work with Konami than any of the others (excepting Sony as a platform holder, but even then they are more likely in a supporting role).

Of the mercenary devs we commonly know (or that I can think of):
- GenDesign
- Bokeh
- Grasshopper Manufacture
- CyGames
- Koei Tecmo
- Kojima Productions
- FROM Software

GenDesign: Nope. Ueada will only do his own thing, he takes awhile, and he's busy doing a game for Epic.

Bokeh: Toyama just recently started Bokeh, but they are doing Slitterhead, and likely aren't large enough to do two projects at once. Assuming there was a SH being done at Sony once upon a time with his involvement, he could technically be helping out similar to Ueada helping finish The Last Guardian even after leaving Sony Japan. Either way, Bokeh as a studio isn't working on SH5.

Grasshopper: As I said before, I don't see it. Akira Yamaoka usually hangs around there, but he is freelance. He could be involved with SH5, but likely only once again returning for music, and there's no indication that he handles sound director roles as before. Either way, his involvement doesn't require Grasshopper's. We have no idea what they are working on after No More Heroes III. I don't feel they are the studio to do SH5, though I can see them being involved in a project like Anapurna's for a smaller affair.

CyGames: As I said above, it's possible, they seem to have the graphical chops, but so far outside of impressive tech demos, none of their ambitious console titles have ever been released, nor have we seen updates on them. Perhaps those were back-burned and they took on other projects for other IP holders for more immediate results, but outside of ports and mobile they have not exactly done much. They are possible, but it is a long shot, and would honestly be the first time we see them delivering on a proper console game in a 2nd party role.

Koei Tecmo: In my mind, these are the next best devs. They have worked 2nd party on other publishers IPs, from Nintendo for Fire Emblem to Metroid. As well as with Sega/Atlus on Persona, and Square Enix with FF Origins. They have some horror experience with Fatal Frame. They are a good consideration for a Silent Hill console title with Konami.

Kojima Productions: A hard call, as Kojima was initially involved with an earlier Silent Hill revival at Konami under Silent Hills and made P.T. There is a point that his break-up with Konami makes this unlikely. But it seems that Kojima himself is diplomatic about it, and has even been speaking positively of his time at Konami and is grateful for it. Several rumors did go around that he and Konami might be trying to get along with Sony as a middle-man. To what extent this has worked is completely unknown. We know Kojima has been attempting to try and do horror again, and that he is aware that many would love to see him do horror and especially make the dream of Silent Hills live again. His current project is still secret. We have confirmation that Norman Reedus is working with him again, and that Reedus called their next work Death Stranding 2, though we don't know if he was simply speaking inaccurately and no clarifications have been made. We also know that Kojima has something else called Overdose. Kojima himself said he was working on two things, a large project and a smaller project. We don't know if Overdose is Death Stranding 2 or it's own thing. We also don't know if Overdose is a project title and not the final name. The leaks seem to imply it having something to do with horror, and that demonstrations of streaming to a mobile device were being made. Kojima Productions confirmed the leaks by formally requesting that the story be taken down. Is Overdose related to Silent Hill as a codename? We won't know until it's announced. It is more likely that it is not rather than that it is, and tying it to Silent Hill is just wishful thinking. At the same time we know that if Kojima got the chance to make Silent Hill, he'd take it. So this means a Kojima-Silent Hill is entirely down to Konami willing to let him.

FROM Software: Now, hear me out, as this was my own speculation, and I considered it prior to Elden Ring's success. Elden Ring's success very likely means Elden Ring DLC or Elden Ring 2 is FROM's priority. There is speculation that they are also trying to revive their other mecha series Armored Core. Dark Souls is also still highly popular, and there is no reason to let that brand die. That said, the team is good with turnaround on projects and working efficiently. They are not top tier in graphics, but their art-style is strong. They are willing to work on off-the-wall projects like Deracine, and also with other IP, such as Gundam, and also on 2nd party roles such as with Bloodborne and Sekiro. As Bloodborne demonstrated, by working with Sony they can make beautiful games. It is possible that they'd be open to working with Konami. It is possible that they could make the Souls formula work with Silent Hill in terms of a Melee Combat game. Bloodborne also had guns. Now does that mean a game where you're rolling around and around Pyramid Amelia with a sword and shield in a trench coat? No, I think they are smart enough to know that the approach here would have to be different, and like Sekiro, they could be looking for different ways to play around with the formula. How would Souls combat work in a contemporary setting? For one I think it would be more realistic and with standard difficulty option choices. Exploration is also a big thing and their level design is pretty well received. Silent Hill would be a smaller area to play with, though even expanded if say you traveled there from elsewhere, like in SH3, and had the liberty of an Otherworld to play with. More linearity versus Elden Ring's wide open field would also make development easier and with more emphasis on story beats. The story would also not necessarily mean Miyazaki's minimalist style, and if FROM was making it, would likely involve another director. It would be interesting to see what this studio could do. Leaks coming from FROM tend to be difficult, save for Bloodborne's leak which was weeks before the main reveal anyway, but otherwise they run a pretty tight ship there. Sony initially approached FROM for an IP for their next-gen system PS4 as well as for PSVR with Deracine, which Japan Studio also helped out on. It's possible that they approached FROM for a PS5 IP as well. And maybe this could have led to getting involved with Konami and SH. However, this is indeed also a long shot and is more unlikely than likely. I get the feeling that FROM's developers do like to branch out and do other things from time to time, so perhaps they would want to play around with the SH IP, but it is more likely that Sony/Konami approach them versus them pitching it of their own accord.
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Re: TWO New SH Games In Development??? (New SH Game Rumours)

Post by Wigeke »

Grasshopper did work on a mainline Fatal Frame game before, so I wouldn't discard them as a possibility.
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Re: TWO New SH Games In Development??? (New SH Game Rumours)

Post by jdnation »

That's true, but that was a joint project with Tecmo and Nintendo who did the main work. Grasshopper only handled minimal stuff like character motion, although Suda51 did co-direct and co-write and help design. So they were a support studio. And lately most of their work is more Nintendo focused.

We could also potentially guess that what we've seen of Sakura could also be running on the Fox Engine that Konami still uses. So maybe Sakura is Konami's Metal Gear Survive staff making it. Some of the lighting and character images feel that way. Since PT was made on FOX, maybe Konami would use it again.

--------
Update:

A story recently came out from 9to5google in the wake of Stadia shutting down. It reiterated earlier information that Google cancelled a game with Kojima, but seems to have their wires crossed over confusion about what their alleged source meant by a "follow-up" to Death Stranding. The writer is apparently not familiar to video games, so assumed incorrectly that it was Death Stranding 2, but that is not possible as Sony owns the IP. Early reports about this believe that it was a horror game Kojima had in mind for Stadia and streaming.

https://9to5google.com/2022/09/30/stadi ... ng-kojima/

What this recent news might also hint at is that a good bit of work as a pitch was shown to Google, but Phil Harrison cancelled Kojima's game because he and Google didn't believe single player experiences were a good market (lol), and this does match up with other Kojima tweets about him feeling down because a project was cancelled.
Reportedly, the game had gotten initial approval from Google and had begun the early stages of development. However, shortly after the first mockups were shown in mid 2020, Google scrapped the project entirely.
This project involving the cloud, may be what Microsoft has picked up. And since work had already started, this may have been what Kojima was showing off streaming via phone as Overdose. So it can more definitely be said that Overdose has nothing to do with Silent Hill, but may be the single-player ambitious horror game that Kojima wants to leverage with the cloud that will be exclusive to Xbox. If STADIA was going to do anything Silent Hill, they'd be talking with Konami. If it was Death Stranding, they'd be talking to Sony. Dealing with Kojima alone means it was a new IP. Likely, Microsoft has revived that project for streaming/Gamepass/PC.

As for the other project, DuskGolem revealed the following regarding this story.
If anyone needs a source to debunk this rumor, even though I think its pretty obvious, this is untrue.

Death Stranding 2 is in development (and for some insiders to know I'm not bullshitting about this in the future, its internal codename is Ocean), but Kojima has had a long standing deal with Sony on this, which is being analyzed if Sony and Kojima Productions should renew their contracts after DS2 or not at present, but was never in question before this due to a multi-game contract Sony and Kojima Productions have. But Death Stranding 2 itself was always plotted to be with Sony. I'm not going to say a single actual thing about the game itself, not now or in the future, so don't ask even if people figure out later I'm 100% telling the truth about the codename and contract stuff. But any murmurs about a DS2 with anyone other than Sony is bullshit. The deal with Xbox was never meant to be DS2, this rumor is just false, Sony and Kojima Productions have a multi-game contract that expires after DS2 and at present is being decided by both parties whether to continue their relationship or end it after DS2, and that is the truth.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/9to5go ... t-94122630

DuskG is credible enough, and combined with Norman Reedus outright saying that is what he is doing next, we can safely conclude that Kojima is doing Death Stranding 2.

So we can cross Kojima Productions off the list of potential Japanese SH devs. Both projects are likely accounted for, and it is unlikely they have the staff to work on a third.

-----

Some more official confirmation that FFXVI will be shown again sometime in October, which could either mean a Square Enix stream, or a potential Sony show.
https://www.reddit.com/r/FFXVI/comments ... n_october/

Also the Game Awards will be on Dec 8th, and as a normal big public event, not a stream.
https://twitter.com/geoffkeighley/statu ... 7145550848
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Re: TWO New SH Games In Development??? (New SH Game Rumours)

Post by Yuki »

The Adversary wrote: 27 Sep 2022 >It really seems like all the rumors and such have brought a bunch of us back.<
I'll take it! And it's almost your 13th anniversary.
I can't believe it's been that long, whoa. Good to still be here.

I almost wonder if we'll end up getting a game from a more no name studio. Hmmm.
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Re: TWO New SH Games In Development??? (New SH Game Rumours)

Post by jdnation »

A leak of several Sony studio projects came out. It confirms the Kojima Productions game is codenamed Ocean, whick DuskG said is Death Stranding 2. It is for PS5 only.

There is nothing regarding Asobi or Konami in this one, KOEI Tecmo is listed for Ronin, but Sony and Ballistic Moon are making a survival horror game for PS5/PC codenamed Bates, and it is using the Decima engine that Guerrilla and Kojipro use. Firesprite is also making a survival horror PS5/PC game codenamed Heartbreak.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/the-si ... ed.639381/

DuskG started sharing rumors in Jan 2020.
https://twitter.com/AestheticGamer1/sta ... 0717277191

Masahiro Ito also began an unnaunced game in Jan 2020
https://www.videogameschronicle.com/new ... -new-game/

Konami issued a vague blanket denial in March 2020 about rumors.
https://www.videogameschronicle.com/new ... ts-untrue/

Akira Yamaoka teased something in Feb 2021 +Bloober rumors also date to then.
https://www.videogameschronicle.com/new ... oping-for/
https://www.videogameschronicle.com/new ... -only-one/

Bloober partnership announced june 2021
https://www.videogameschronicle.com/new ... ill-links/

The timeline for development in this leak covers the beginning of 2021 to early 2022. Kojipro's area only begins in Jan 2022, but we don't know what the green bar refers to.

Bates is still early in development, as of 2 months ago, so it likely has nothing to do with the even earlier SH rumors. But the Aug timeline does match with the hiring news.
https://www.gematsu.com/2022/08/sony-in ... tor-resume

Since Ballistic Moon is made up of ex Supermassive staff, I expect it is similar to Until Dawn, which was also Decima.

Sony bought Firesprite at the end of 2021. It was founded by ex Sony London devs. We already heard they were making a AAA horror game. The graph indicates October.
https://www.videogameschronicle.com/new ... -engine-5/

Ito could not have been involved with them.

The PC mention could infer a simultaneous release which hints at a potential 3rd party IP, as first party IP tend to get a delayed/outsourced PC port much later. If it is Unreal 5, then that makes it easier to work with external development, versus something more proprietary like Decima, or perhaps Unreal makes simultaneous PC dev easier? Then again, Bates is also doing it with Decima, but Kojima Productions is not. Firesprite is also busy with Horizon for PSVR2.

Both horror projects do not have multiplayer. Ocean is '?" likely for it s assymetrical strand system features.

Kojima was talking about a horror project in late 2019. But that was likely the Stadia project cancelled in sumer 2020. Kojima teased a DS sequel in June 2020. Then began work on something in Oct 2020.
https://www.videogameschronicle.com/new ... ror-title/
https://gamerant.com/hideo-kojima-episo ... le-stadia/
https://www.ign.com/articles/death-stra ... jima-tweet
https://www.thegamer.com/kojima-product ... d-project/

The point here is that DS2 work was being preplanned as early as summer/autumn 2020, therefore the green portions of the leaked timeline don't tell us the whole story.

Koei Tecmo's codenamed Ronin shows a blue line for Tool support Only from June 2021. The game was formally revealed Sep 2022, as Rise of the Ronin. So we can't really glean dev timelines from this. The leak is likely just scheduling from some support studio for QA etc.

----------------

Update, the next Kojima tease.
https://twitter.com/Kojima_Hideo/status ... 5603783681
https://twitter.com/HIDEO_KOJIMA_EN/sta ... 7493937153
Elle Fanning confirmed - https://twitter.com/manfightdragon/stat ... 4130843648

Also there is Ikumi Nakamura's new independent studio UNSEEN. But the website hints more at hiring for a new IP.
https://www.unseen-tokyo.com/
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Re: TWO New SH Games In Development??? (New SH Game Rumours)

Post by dpanim »

Here's Gans again with the loose lips

https://twitter.com/MaGMovieandGame/sta ... _&ref_url=

A friend translated to me.

"I'm working with the Silent Team, the original creators at Konami, there are several games in development as we speak, there are several teams on it, with a big line of games, they will revive the franchise, I think they were really impressed of the success of the remakes of Resident Evil that are evidently exceptional games."

"I'm not working directly on the games but I'm working with Konami but not with Kojima, tho, but with the Silent Team who I met when I filmed the first Silent Hill movie."

"And they're still here"

But wait. There is more

-"So who are developing the games?"
-"It's Konami, there are several games."
-"Because we know Bloober Team are working on Silent Hill 2 Remake"
-"Yes"
-"And we don't know who's developing the others."
-"Yeah, there are several teams."
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Re: TWO New SH Games In Development??? (New SH Game Rumours)

Post by jdnation »

He also said a bit more about the next film:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/christ ... nt.640842/
"In this second movie, I'll try to explain that Silent Hill is a place that owes as much to the creatures that live there as what we project on the town. So I'll enter into something way more psychological and way more psychoanalytic in order to try to make people understand that Silent Hill isn't only this strange labyrinth that changes its form but also the projection of tortured and tormented souls and sometimes of extremely paradoxical feelings that can be between mad love and violence."
Anyway, this clears up a bunch of things that we can confirm now.

SH5 is being made at Konami itself, and involves some of the original Team Silent Members who were around when the first movie was being made. Around 2004 - 2006. So around the time of Silent Hill 4.

Kojima is not involved in any way.

Bloober is making SH2 Remake.

Other games are also in the works elsewhere.
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Re: TWO New SH Games In Development??? (New SH Game Rumours)

Post by MistahJ »

"The truth is rarely pure and never simple" - Oscar Wilde

(somethinglacking on Discord)
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Re: TWO New SH Games In Development??? (New SH Game Rumours)

Post by Droo »

ABOUT FUCKING TIME

Here we go y'all!!!!!
"Oh yeah, I've been here before
I can see it with eyes closed
Shadows that look like blood
Dead as far as the mind goes
Fear that comes from my head
Lives in the mirror"
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Re: TWO New SH Games In Development??? (New SH Game Rumours)

Post by Yuki »

HELLLLLLLLL YEAH I'm excited!
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