TWO New SH Games In Development??? (New SH Game Rumours)

[Droo]

The official SH Facebook page also posted about it.

[jdnation]

KatharsisT, apparently told other Era members details in advance about the upcoming Legends DLC for Ghost of Tsushima, including the name of it, so that adds to her credibility, and also suggests she's connected to people doing work for Sony Worldwide Studios as a source rather than just the Japanese branch.

Update- Although Sony wasn't listed as part of Gamescom, turns out that games like Kena and Ratchet and Clank will be shown. There might be some surprises from Geoff Keighley, and he recently had positive things to say about PS5's lineup compared to Xbox, but I wouldn't expect SH to show up there. And as August closes, it looks like both MS and Sony have delayed events to September.

[Droo]

Several unannounced game trailer debuts are scheduled for Thursday at Gamescom according to IGN. Could SH be one of them?

[sh#1fan]

I keep checking back here every day. My poor heart can't take much more of this!!! At this point I think there's a very slim chance it's real.

[Vixx]

I keep checking back here every day. My poor heart can't take much more of this!!! At this point I think there's a very slim chance it's real.

I suspect it'll be around the time of TGS, sh#1fan, so hang in there - there's still a few more weeks to wait yet!

[Droo]

When is TGS again?

[Alexius Corvinus]

Silent Hill....ooh Silent Hill...

Edit: TGS is in September.

[jdnation]

Geoff Keighley said there won't be any big major surprises for the Gamescom streams.

Also COD Cold War does look to be tied to PS5 marketing, and includes Vietnam War era. Prices of next gen games are also going up.

It's now looking like TGS will be the next timeframe, and likely Sony will not have a Japanese centric show, but another global one. So both markets ought to be targeted in the same event.

I will also add that the 2020 Game Awards, which will be all digital this year, is also a contender that has a large audience and has done well for Sony announcements.

[Droo]

If it's not at TGS, it doesn't exist.

[saevitia]

Marking my calendar for Sept. 23.

[NanayaShiki]

If it's not at TGS, it doesn't exist.

If it wasn't for COVID, I'd feel the same. With the way things are, I feel like a lot of stuff got shuffled around and delayed. Though if we don't see it this year I'll definitely stop holding my breath at every event.

[jdnation]

This is us...



Anyway, Netflix is getting a Resident Evil TV series... and reading that synopsis, I hope they never get Silent Hill... Hopefully Sony is hard at work on that PlayStation movies/TV service that'll let the game creatives have input and share resources...

[KiramidHead]

I'd actually read the pilot teleplay for that Resident Evil show a few months back, was kind of hoping they'd have scrapped it.

[jdnation]

There was a bit of a back'n' forth on ReSet Era between insiders over whether Silent Hill actually exists or not.

It began with a tweet by another insider who some are saying has a hit or miss record, saying there is no Silent Hill game.
https://twitter.com/geronimo_73/status/ ... 3520316421

He later showed up on the Sh era thread that he's on their vetted insider list due to contacts he used to have in the past while working for an outlet that he still occasionally keeps in touch with.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/sony-r ... t-43748702

There was discussion with regards to KatharsisT's belief that Sony will try and implement some BC solution for PS1-3 gens using PSNow, though it was still up in the air. Dusk also mentioned that he'd heard things about Sony pursuing some 'weird' BC solution for legacy hardware. Roberto said that apparently older gen PS BC was expensive according to what Mark Cerny said, though another member clarified that Cerny was likely referring to including older gen physical HW onto the console, which would make the cost more expensive.

DuskGolem chimed in:

"I still can't verify that the Sony stuff is true, but I do believe Katharsis and Canon_Fodder still.

That said, if we're talking about any and all Silent Hill games and the statement not one exists, I can also call bullshit on that. The existence of such a game I've already had confirmed multiple times from 100% reliable sources. I'm sorry I can't say more than that, but if the question is, "Is there a Silent Hill game in development", or at the very least has there been a Silent Hill game in development during 2020, then the answer is 100% yes, yes there had been. That I can guarantee with 100% certainty.

I know for a fact without a shadow of a doubt that there's been a Silent Hill game developed and worked on in 2020. That is a fact."

Roberto replied to inquiries for clarification:

"I already replied about it

No Silent Hill in development at now

There was a briefing a lot of months ago to discuss it, nothing more

if Konami will choose to deliver a new (or reboot of) Silent Hill , it's not soon

At now there is a new horror game in development by Playstation Studios for PS5. No way to know when it will come out."

Dusk asked for clarification:

"I'm going to get into some stuff that Katharsis & Cannon_Fodder told me, but not specifically. This has already been talked about some.

Could perchance you be talking about the meetings they held earlier this year to try to get Silent Hills (with an S) resurrected? This isn't from my sources but I've talked about it with a couple others, there were meetings between Japan Studios, Sony, Kojima Productions, Konami, and some other parties to try to get Silent Hills off the ground which fell through. That indeed was talked about months ago, but nothing came from it, and it vaguely sounds like what you're talking about.

However, that was never the Silent Hill game that I was talking about, and the one I can 100% confirm exists was in production before these talks even happened, assuming that's the part of this you've heard about."

To which Roberto could only reply:

"So, Dusk has several better sources than me about Silent Hill(s), if he said 100% yes.

I can't say the same thing, sorry"

and

"Maybe, most probably."

https://www.resetera.com/threads/sony-r ... 5/page-213

So Roberto feels that Dusk may be correct. That the meeting that Roberto was referring to was for Kojima's game, which isn't happening and Konami is therefore pursuing 'Silent Hills' in some other way. And the other horror game in development at Sony could still be Toyama's and that is 'Silent Hill' proper.

DuskGolem also revealed a bit more on how he heard things:

There's three people I've heard things from over a period of a year who are just people I know personally, and others with similar stories. I won't get very strongly into this, but the first thing I've shared a few times was a personal friend at one of the studios contacted by Konami in 2018 informed me Konami had approached them to greenlight two Silent Hill titles and wanted pitches from different studios. A few weeks later I got an email from someone else at a different studio with similar claims.

In mid-2019, I shouldn't get fully to into this... I make my own little games, and my development partner is someone who lives in Japan and has lived in Japan for many years. They have connections in the Japanese game industry, and sometimes I play games with them or we just talk for fun. Anyways, one of them one day in this little group of friends knows I'm a big horror enthusiast and brought up to me that there was a Silent Hill game that had started development in Japan at the start of the year they had heard about during water cooler talk essentially (developers talk with each other about what they're working on, this is pretty normal in active cities and communities in similar lines of work as part of connecting and networking), it was something on the down low and to wait a bit before I shared it publicly as was still relatively early. This person is just a personal friend who happens to work in the Japanese game industry who 100% has no reason to lie about this, add to this they're a very honest hardworking person.

Earlier this year, I got a third confirmation from someone I'm friends with who is working with Konami on something that isn't Silent Hill, I won't get into it to not narrow it down, but they knew I was looking for confirmation that Silent Hill was real and still in development, told me not to get into some other things they confided in me and keep that private, but they could confirm Silent Hill was alive and kicking.

That's the absolute most I can share on this for anyone wondering where I'm coming from, and even that is more than I should say. But if the question is, "Is a Silent Hill game in production," then yes, and that's before I even get to all the other people I've talked with about this."

KatharsisT also clarified that whatever project Kojima and Junji Ito were planning to work on was unrelated to Silent Hill or anything with video games.

[Droo]

At this stage I'm starting to even doubt the PS5 is coming out anytime soon, let alone SH.

[Alexius Corvinus]

I’m interested in this BC solution for the legacy PS 1/2/3 games.

[NanayaShiki]

Nothing really new from all of that to be fair. Sounds like the new person just heard about the Kojima talks (which Vixx also knew about) and that nothing seems to be coming from it, then they just ran with that under the assumption it was the only Silent Hill game being talked about.

Hope Dusk getting pressured into revealing more about his source doesn't lead to anyone getting in trouble, though.

[jdnation]

DuskGolem is now saying that Sony's event is in the first half of September. Silent Hill is still in development.
https://twitter.com/AestheticGamer1/sta ... 4725325824

Also RE8 is looking good, RE4 is having issues, and Monster Hunter for Switch is coming and running on the RE Engine. Also some Shenmue news coming soon.

Given recent news that Nintendo is planning a new beefier Switch model for next year, it may coincide with the Mon Hun news, and porting of the RE Engine, very likely to facilitate 3rd parties moving to PS5 and SeriesX, but at the risk of splitting the Switch userbase where we might fear that some new 3rd party ports won't run on the original Switch. A DS/DSi situation.

----------

Updates:

Some more info from Roberto. Back in May, he felt there was an SH game happening.
https://twitter.com/geronimo_73/status/ ... 7005891584

In conversations with KatharsisT, he now feels the following:

In agreement with KatharsisT

- Konami has working on a Silent Hill game reboot (like God of War) for around 2 years
- project "Silent Hills" deceaded this year after a briefing with Konami, a legal representant of Kojima and Sony
- Japan Studio (with PlaystationStudios support) cares the development of "project 0" to become a survival horror video game (after a partnership signed with Konami, this should right be the Silent Hill reboot)
- Roles: Toyama as creative director, Masahiro Ito and Akira Yamaoka as external artist consultants from 2019
- Sony will publish and release it as PS5 exclusive, Konami would obtain 8% of revenue
- Development status is expected to be good, so release by 2021 or early 2022

Maybe, what I used to know as "Project 0" based on the Silent Hill franchise was actually Silent Hill

Referring to whose info is whose:
"Me
- Roles: Toyama as creative director, Masahiro Ito and Akira Yamaoka as external artist consultants from 2019
- Development status is expected to be good, so release by 2021 or early 2022
KatharsisT
- Sony will publish and release it as PS5 exclusive, Konami would obtain 8% of revenue"



DuskGolem:

"If Katharsis is telling the truth, which I believe they are, the meetings on Silent Hills were at the start of this year/late last year.

I also heard similar things from Cannon_Fodder seperately who heard the same thing from a different source. And it seems Roberto heard the same thing from yet a different source.

However, it should be clarified again these talks lead to nothing for Silent Hills with an S."

"2018 is when Konami shopped around to greenlight two Silent Hill games at different studios. That I know 100%.

I also know from both Katharsis and Cannon_Fodder if they are both telling the truth (which I believe) that a Siren game was canned and Sony came into the picture to Konami, but negotiations only made complete until 2019."

"The simplest way I can say it is Katharsis has some very compelling info that can't be public but simultaneously fits with what I know for fact and what Roberto knew as fact. And Transistor can verify.

I even had some suspicions Roberto heard correct things but from someone in the dark. Cannon_Fodder was kind and gave me a very thorough explanation of the how, who, what they knew, not to share publicly, but they highlighted internally even Sony has been VERY secretive about two projects, Silent Hill being one of them. Many in the company have only heard murmerings about it, or know a horror game is in the works but not the specifics around it. Which had me thinking Roberto heard something true but from someone a bit in the outer ring of things.

Assuming this is all true, though I believe it, but I can only 100% verify the stuff on my end and not all the Sony stuff, just know the evidence is compelling but too specific to be public."

KatharsisT:

"The fact is that it's currently being developed by Toyama and his team at Japan Studio and that Sony are publishing it. Maybe you haven't received the information from your sources but I can state that it's been happening for almost 2 years now.
And I know the nature of the partnership between them so I'm 100% certain that it's still happening."


Long story short summary of what we can put together:

-Masahiro ito was working on a Russian-themed Horror project for Sony that was cancelled.
-After Gravity Rush 2, Toyama wanted to make a new horror game with a small budget.
-Sony began developing a game internally with Toyama as 'Project 0' for PS5.
-We're not certain if the game was a new Siren, but it's most likely a new IP.
-Masahiro Ito is an external consultant on the project.
-Akira Yamaoka was also coming on board.
-Konami was shopping around for 2 Silent Hill games using external devs.
-One project was a full fledged game, the other was a smaller branching path adventure title.
-Sony may have been unsure about Toyama's new IP project.
-Sony entered negotiations with Konami to use the Silent Hill brand.
-Sony and Konami reached a deal where 'Project 0' would become Silent Hill.
-Sony will be footing the entire bill for development, Konami gets an 8% cut of all sales. Sony maintains the bulk of creative control.
-Sony also took the opportunity to negotiate the other Silent Hill game with Konami and giving it to Kojima Productions to do as 'Silent Hills.'
-Kojima contacted Norman Reedus and Junji Ito about this possibility working out.
-Silent Hills may have been smaller in scope and intended to work with PSVR.
-However, negotiations for Kojima's 'Silent Hills' didn't work out.
-Konami is now pursuing some other avenue for 'Silent Hills'
-Kojima has moved on to another new project.
-Junji Ito and Kojima will be working on something else together.
-Silent Hill (Project 0) continues development at SCEJ, game is in a playable state, release is scheduled for late 2021/early 2022.
-Silent Hill was initially supposed to be announced at the June PS5 reveal with a pre-rendered CG trailer.
-Sony, however, wanted to emphasize real-time running-on-console demonstrations, and thus several announcements were pulled from the show until a later date.
-There is still belief that the game will be revealed before the PS5 launch.

Sony's Latin American, French and Australian YT channels have been updated with 4 new private videos, which could be more PS5 commercials. With Dusk saying that an event is scheduled for the first half of September, we may get new news soon.

----------

Update 2:

KatharsisT clarifies that Masahiro Ito and Akira Yamaoka are not just consultants, but are involved in their respective capacities.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/sony-r ... t-43930886

New Rely on Horror article following this rumor's development.
https://www.relyonhorror.com/articles/b ... ll-reboot/

[Alexius Corvinus]

If 8 percent is the case, that’s pretty low. Maybe Sony had to pony up a lot up front.

[jdnation]

Actually 8% would be on the high end of IP licensing.

"Royalty rates vary per industry, but a good rule of thumb is between 2-3% on the low end, and 7-10% on the high end. I have licensed consumer products for as low as 3% and as high as 7%, with 5% being the most common and a generally fair number."
https://www.core77.com/posts/23366/Prod ... Talk-Money

The average going by the 25% of 'profit' rule.

"According to this rule of thumb a licensee should pay a royalty rate equivalent to about 25 per cent of the expected profits for the product that incorporates the subject IP. The rule has been widely used as a starting point in royalty rate determination for several decades, despite, or because of, its simplicity and the intuitive logic that royalties are aligned with profitability."

Diagram 9: Use of Multiple Methods to Determine a Royalty Range
                                                      

i) Comparable royalties between unrelated parties:
- upper quartile ---------------------------------------8.0%
- median ------------------------------------------------5.5%
- lower quartile ----------------------------------------2.0%
ii) Excess earnings analysis ------------------------ 5.0%
iii) 25% rule of thumb ---------------------------------4.5%
Recommended royalty range
(considering IP evaluation) ------------------------5.0% - 5.5%
iv) Implied royalty cover ---------------------------4.5

9 Kemmerer, J.E and Lu, J, ‘Profitability and Royalty Rates Across Industries: Some Preliminary Evidence’, Journal of Academy of Business and Economics, volume 8, number 3, 2008.
https://brandfinance.com/images/upload/ ... _rates.pdf


If we examine the game revenue breakdown of a £49.99 game:

https://www.kotaku.co.uk/2015/09/30/why ... ideo-games

The above charts are estimates for 15% cut for licensed content royalty, which varies. Something like the NFL / NBA / NHL franchises will naturally command a higher percentage than Silent Hill.

So Konami is getting a good deal from Sony.

The percentage of profit split would only be higher if Konami was also splitting development costs. But Sony's apparently doing it all, hence why the game is said to be a bonafide PS5 exclusive, but Konami, doing nothing, gets an upper end licensing fee.

So going by the above model of a £49.99 game. Konami will get £2.40 from every physical game sold (8% of £30).

So if the original Silent Hill sold 2 million copies and this game does similar numbers, then that's £4,800,000 (Close to $6 million US), which doesn't seem like that much for a company like Konami who altogether normally pull over $1 billion yearly through its entire digital services, but considering it comes at no cost or risk to them, it's not insignificant, plus the game's success strengthens the brand and leads to other licensing/merchandise income.

In fact, if we compare this to Konami's PES series where the 2019 version sold half a million copies...
https://www.sports-king.com/fifa-19-vs- ... ales-2665/

Going by the Publisher profit in the chart, Konami would make over $7 million from the gross profit.

So if we compare Konami spending money to make $7 million on PES, versus spending nothing and making $6 million through Sony spending money to make Silent Hill, then you can obviously see how this is very good for Konami.

In fact, considering growing digital sales give the publisher a higher revenue, and SH being a significant next-gen exclusive 1st party title that could pull in sales higher than the original game on PSOne, and the fact that Sony is the platform holder, meaning their profit is higher as they don't pay a cut to publish on PlayStation like 3rd parties do, then Konami stands to make significantly more - reaching closer to $8 million.

Considering this, it's little wonder that they'd also be open to a 2nd 'Silent Hills' title through Sony. Though naturally having Kojima Productions involved would've led to more splitting of profit, and we can see where there would be creative/financial difficulties where obviously Kojima would want creative control, but Kojima can't finance the game himself like Sony can, which would've meant Konami putting up money, or Sony again taking the larger portion. If the game was multiplatform and only Kojima and Konami, then it might've worked out, but obviously Sony would be against that, excepting perhaps a late PC release, but then that means Sony won't want to spend as much. So as we can see, a three way deal would be more difficult to nail down than one that's just between two parties (Sony & Konami) or (Kojima & Konami), versus (Sony, KojiPro & Konami).

Not that a threesome of this sort hasn't happened - for example Marvel (Disney) licensing Spider-Man to Sony to publish, who then had Insomniac make it. Granted, Insomniac was at a stage of negotiation to become 1st party... But Sony is also licensing the Predator IP from 20th Century FOX (Disney) to publish a game by a 3rd party - Illfonic. So it's not at all impossible, and given we don't know what went on behind the scenes, it could just be other difficulties between getting Kojima and Konami to work together again. But it could be the case that neither Insomniac nor Illfonic got royalties and Sony covered their development costs, so it was contract work, whereas KojiPro wanted royalties and Kojima was even willing to spend on dev costs for creative control, but who knows?