Hello all,
I see alot of you throwing around the idea that all the echoes in game are related or symbolize cheryl....
Ok i might believe that.. however. The two brothers in the woods seemed like a story not related to Cheryl or Harry what so ever.
Also i see alot of people saying that Cheryl was the girl at the party who got drugged and raped/hurt... how do you explain the bloody jacket with the key in it? Oh yes and the cabin door with the bloody hand print, which looks like the girl was murdered inside (Cabin that turns Toluca into otherworld)
Im quite confused... As i believed even on my 4th playthrough that "MOST" of the echoes were just twisted side stories in the game.
Sorry for my spelling, very tired
Echoes...(Dont spoil yourself)
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deadwulf7
Echoes...(Dont spoil yourself)
Last edited by deadwulf7 on 04 Mar 2010, edited 1 time in total.
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deadwulf7
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SilentObserver
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Apparently the echo pictures sometimes change. On my first playthrough - the sleeping bag one showed me a girl's face - but at the time I didn't know the ending and I don't remember if it looked like her or not. My second playthrough has shown me a fully nude body lying on the bag - and it's definetly cheryl.
Anyone have screenshots of these so we can compare?
I can see all of them being about her except the two boys, yes. The choking game was likely something that she did, or had heard about at school and that's why it's there. I donno, I really need to play it again
Anyone have screenshots of these so we can compare?
I can see all of them being about her except the two boys, yes. The choking game was likely something that she did, or had heard about at school and that's why it's there. I donno, I really need to play it again
Only some of my posts are serious.
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deadwulf7
Whitneys site is great for all these pics, check it out Silentobserver!!!
http://shshatteredmemories.com/misctext/
Ok so the pictures texts all kinda resemble Cheryl, but how can we explain the bloody jacket and the obvious murder that took place inside that cabin?
http://shshatteredmemories.com/misctext/
Ok so the pictures texts all kinda resemble Cheryl, but how can we explain the bloody jacket and the obvious murder that took place inside that cabin?
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SilentObserver
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First off, I'd suggest you change the topic title to avoid spoilers.
Second:
Almost all of the echoes are about Cheryl. The murder one seems to be ambiguous; I'm not sure if it's ever outright STATED there's a murder, but it seems to me to either be murder or rape. I would say that maybe someone got murdered at a party Cheryl was at in the woods. I would also argue that the Choking Game messages had to do with Cheryl not because she did the Choking Game, but because it was all around her at school.
I do not believe the drowning boys or the boy shooting the deer have anything to do with Cheryl; if anything, she simply witnessed them.
Second:
Almost all of the echoes are about Cheryl. The murder one seems to be ambiguous; I'm not sure if it's ever outright STATED there's a murder, but it seems to me to either be murder or rape. I would say that maybe someone got murdered at a party Cheryl was at in the woods. I would also argue that the Choking Game messages had to do with Cheryl not because she did the Choking Game, but because it was all around her at school.
I do not believe the drowning boys or the boy shooting the deer have anything to do with Cheryl; if anything, she simply witnessed them.
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ashatteredmemory
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Some are about Cheryl, or was associated with, but many are also things Cheryl probably heard and kept in her head, for example the choking game.
"Grown-ups tell kids there's no such thing as monsters, that the Bogeyman is just make-believe, and there's nothing hiding under their beds, but that's a lie. Because I've seen 'em." - Murphy Pendleton
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deadwulf7
Yuki i apologize but this is the SH:SM Spoilers forum. Considering a majority of the posts here are NOT tagged. Why is it named spoilers forum again? Isnt this a free posting forum with a BEWARE OF SPOILERS title on it?
Anyway....heh
If anything i guess i can assume all these side stories were rumors or secrets Cheryl has known about.
I just dont see her being that girl in the woods, and AGAIN with the bloody jacket confirms for me that Cheryl played no role at all in this side story
Anyway....heh
If anything i guess i can assume all these side stories were rumors or secrets Cheryl has known about.
I just dont see her being that girl in the woods, and AGAIN with the bloody jacket confirms for me that Cheryl played no role at all in this side story
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cascade88
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Yeah. But, if you click "View posts since last visit", well, you can certainly see spoilerific thread titles. Just think if this was years ago, and you came on a month or so after SH2 had come out. Now, you're avoiding the SH2 Spoilers forum, but unwittingly click "View posts since last visit" anyway, and see "OMG I CANT BELIEVE JAMES KILLED MARY!!1". I doubt you'd appreciate it.Yuki i apologize but this is the SH:SM Spoilers forum. Considering a majority of the posts here are NOT tagged. Why is it named spoilers forum again? Isnt this a free posting forum with a BEWARE OF SPOILERS title on it?
In other words, be as spoilerific in your post/thread here, but it doesn't have to leak into the title of thread itself, right?
єเภןє๔єг єภﻮєl เรt รςђгєςкlเςђ
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SilentObserver
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Omg --- James killed Mary?? You're kidding me!! How dare you spoil the game for me!!
/i keed i keed
I agree that the thread titles shouldn't be spoilerific, but at the same time I'm a person that doesn't *care* about spolilers so I may slip from time to time when making threads (I even go read the LOST spoilers wiki before watching the new episodes because it's like a game to me to see if I can imagine it the same way it's presented I have no life it's ok you can tell me)
I can see how people would get mad if they clicked "new posts" though. I came here shortly after SM was released (didn't have it yet) and was spoiled by a couple little thread titles too. Again, I personally didn't care (it didn't ruin the game for me) but I thought it was kind of a dicky thing to see.
I'm just glad cascade cleared it up for me that we don't need spoiler tags in posts in this forum, just gotta keep it out of the thread title. Thanks cascade!
/i keed i keed
I agree that the thread titles shouldn't be spoilerific, but at the same time I'm a person that doesn't *care* about spolilers so I may slip from time to time when making threads (I even go read the LOST spoilers wiki before watching the new episodes because it's like a game to me to see if I can imagine it the same way it's presented I have no life it's ok you can tell me)
I can see how people would get mad if they clicked "new posts" though. I came here shortly after SM was released (didn't have it yet) and was spoiled by a couple little thread titles too. Again, I personally didn't care (it didn't ruin the game for me) but I thought it was kind of a dicky thing to see.
I'm just glad cascade cleared it up for me that we don't need spoiler tags in posts in this forum, just gotta keep it out of the thread title. Thanks cascade!
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Restoration01
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(I said this in another thread, but I'm saying it here too.deadwulf7 wrote:I really cannot see Cheryl being the "Pigtails" hooker.
Ohhhhh and the Choking game!!! ahhh whatever... to each is his own i suppose
)I think Pigtails is Cheryl.
Why? Because in the Wonderland restaurant you hear the echo with a girl (Cheryl) and her boyfriend sitting at one of the tables. Her boyfriend goes on to ask why she's so frigid when it comes to having sex with him.
Then, when you go to the back kitchen area of the restaurant there is a locker (or a fridge perhaps?), and inside it's frozen. You also find a memento of a naked doll with pigtails in this frigid locker.
So, since you get to the brothel (or whatever it is where you find the Pigtails echo) from the restaurant, this implies to me that Cheryl is indeed Pigtails due to the fact that you find the Pigtails doll in a "frigid" locker in the restaurant.
So to sum it up: Frigid = Cheryl = Pigtails doll in the fridge.
As for the forest echoes... I have no idea.
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Restoration01
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Yuki wrote:Why would they be related to Dahlia? Cheryl hates her.Restoration01 wrote:I thought that some of the echoes were related to Dahlia's... but mostly Cheryl's.
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
The dress at the beginning and the voice message about wiping over the marriage footage.
I believe all the echoes do relate to Cheryl.
The context of the echoes change based on Cheryl's profile. As they are echoes, she probably does not remember them fully, so, based on her mindset, she remembers them how she wants too.
I think the pigtails echo is her during a bad session when she worked in a brothel. She obviously values her old childhood a lot and is sort of trapped in that thought.
If you listen to the car echo outside the school, its the voice of Harry talking to a girl. This is likely a remembrance of an early school day when he was telling her how cute she was with the pigtails and how much the boys would like her.
This context is blown away in the brithel, when you find the guy abusing her for wearing a wig. He's almost enforcing her view that she died as a child, by claiming that he liked her more with the pigtails when he believed she was younger than she actually is. She doesn't see that he's just some sick peadophilic nobody :p.
The scenes in the woods are very violent.
There's lots of things going on there that relate to death. I don't think you can quite take the nightmare scenes to be completely factual of real events, they are more brought up by her perception of what is around the place.
She is definately the girl in photo, though there is nothing that says that the girl is dead, you just assume that.
It is possible she is twisting the idea that the girl was killed, based on the fact that she seems to have had another experience in the woods in the hunting lodge, possibly with a young friend or an old boyfriend.
The context of the echoes change based on Cheryl's profile. As they are echoes, she probably does not remember them fully, so, based on her mindset, she remembers them how she wants too.
I think the pigtails echo is her during a bad session when she worked in a brothel. She obviously values her old childhood a lot and is sort of trapped in that thought.
If you listen to the car echo outside the school, its the voice of Harry talking to a girl. This is likely a remembrance of an early school day when he was telling her how cute she was with the pigtails and how much the boys would like her.
This context is blown away in the brithel, when you find the guy abusing her for wearing a wig. He's almost enforcing her view that she died as a child, by claiming that he liked her more with the pigtails when he believed she was younger than she actually is. She doesn't see that he's just some sick peadophilic nobody :p.
The scenes in the woods are very violent.
There's lots of things going on there that relate to death. I don't think you can quite take the nightmare scenes to be completely factual of real events, they are more brought up by her perception of what is around the place.
She is definately the girl in photo, though there is nothing that says that the girl is dead, you just assume that.
It is possible she is twisting the idea that the girl was killed, based on the fact that she seems to have had another experience in the woods in the hunting lodge, possibly with a young friend or an old boyfriend.
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AuraTwilight
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No, it's not, the voice is the same as the guy from the brothel.If you listen to the car echo outside the school, its the voice of Harry talking to a girl. This is likely a remembrance of an early school day when he was telling her how cute she was with the pigtails and how much the boys would like her.
In one version of the photo, the girl's face is half-buried in ice and she's unnaturally pale.She is definately the girl in photo, though there is nothing that says that the girl is dead, you just assume that.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
It's the same voice but is it the same person?
If you listen to the three conversations, all of them sound like a father speaking to a child on their first day of school.
I think the guy in the brothel thought Cheryl was actually a 15 year old which is why he sounds so surprised/disgusted when the wig comes off. He sounds more like a customer who is there for a quick screw and then move on whose unsatisfied with what he thought he was getting.
It is unrealistic to think that he would then be in a car with her near the school and playing out a scene where he is giving her lunch and telling her she will be the envy of all the boys. There's also the point that he mentions her being old enough to be his wife. I think that Cheryl was probably 22-23 at the time of the brothel scene, so she would not be in the high school anymore to be taken back there.
I believe the car scene is actually Harry talking to Cheryl, possibly when she is 4 or 5. Harry does not look like an old man, in fact I would say he is probably in his late twenties. If Cherylw as 4-5 when she heard that conversation in the car, that would make Harry around 25, pretty much the same age as the guy abusing her in the brothel.
What doesn't add up is the fact that car is outside the high school, when it would be a scene where she is going to an infant school or nursery. But then that is why its an echo message, its just from a school era, not necesasrily something that occured in that very place.
As for the photographs. The person in them isn't dead, and I'm pretty sure it's Cerhyl. If you look at the one that starts 'Crazy s*** man', then you can see that it is Cheryl clearly enough. The other 3 pictures are hard to tell but it is definately the same girl. She looks about 15-16.
Whichever one you get it talks about something going to far, and three of them mention spiking a drink or taking drugs. The one you're referring to speaks of her swimming. Her head is in the water and not ice, and she is pale, because she nearly drowned, but I don't believe she died, though the message heavily implies it.
If you listen to the three conversations, all of them sound like a father speaking to a child on their first day of school.
I think the guy in the brothel thought Cheryl was actually a 15 year old which is why he sounds so surprised/disgusted when the wig comes off. He sounds more like a customer who is there for a quick screw and then move on whose unsatisfied with what he thought he was getting.
It is unrealistic to think that he would then be in a car with her near the school and playing out a scene where he is giving her lunch and telling her she will be the envy of all the boys. There's also the point that he mentions her being old enough to be his wife. I think that Cheryl was probably 22-23 at the time of the brothel scene, so she would not be in the high school anymore to be taken back there.
I believe the car scene is actually Harry talking to Cheryl, possibly when she is 4 or 5. Harry does not look like an old man, in fact I would say he is probably in his late twenties. If Cherylw as 4-5 when she heard that conversation in the car, that would make Harry around 25, pretty much the same age as the guy abusing her in the brothel.
What doesn't add up is the fact that car is outside the high school, when it would be a scene where she is going to an infant school or nursery. But then that is why its an echo message, its just from a school era, not necesasrily something that occured in that very place.
As for the photographs. The person in them isn't dead, and I'm pretty sure it's Cerhyl. If you look at the one that starts 'Crazy s*** man', then you can see that it is Cheryl clearly enough. The other 3 pictures are hard to tell but it is definately the same girl. She looks about 15-16.
Whichever one you get it talks about something going to far, and three of them mention spiking a drink or taking drugs. The one you're referring to speaks of her swimming. Her head is in the water and not ice, and she is pale, because she nearly drowned, but I don't believe she died, though the message heavily implies it.
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deadwulf7
Well I'm skeptical about anything that occurs within the nightmare world. The memories are all located in the 'real' world. The nightmare scene is just a twisted adaptation of that world. I should go and have a look at that hand though and see what I can pull from it :p.
In regards to some of the original posters points. I do believe all of the echoes are either a memory or a belief from Cheryl's life. The dead brothers story I think happened at a young age, possibly 8-10 years old. I think that Cheryl was likely playing around enar the sewers and one of them got caught.
The voicemail of the guy talking about it is as if he is speaking to someone to get help. That someone is likely Cheryl. The message she sees in the woods is near a reef or some circular like object. It is possible that this memory is pulled from a newspaper or stroy she heard regarding the other brothers fate.
My theory on the dead guy in the choking game is also related to Cheryl.
The voicemessages he leaves indicates that he was not that popular a kid in school. One of them even hints that he was using a belt his mum gave him that likely caused him some grief.
Cheryl was not a popular kid either, there are plenty of scenes of her getting bullied or abused.
My theory is that the guy that hung himself was a friend of hers. I don't believe he intended to hang himself, it was likely an accident. The possiblity of Cheryl either being there when it happened, or discovering his body is what prompts the strong visual ghost echo.
I like the ironic echo in the school when she replays the prom speech. It is funny because I can sympathize with that from my own school life. The irony of a guy talking about how school days are the best days of your life is lost on someone who is obviously high up on the social ladder enough to be voiceovering the proceedings. The reality is school days for most people suck ass, and they certainly did for Cheryl judging by some of the echoes you see happening there.
In regards to some of the original posters points. I do believe all of the echoes are either a memory or a belief from Cheryl's life. The dead brothers story I think happened at a young age, possibly 8-10 years old. I think that Cheryl was likely playing around enar the sewers and one of them got caught.
The voicemail of the guy talking about it is as if he is speaking to someone to get help. That someone is likely Cheryl. The message she sees in the woods is near a reef or some circular like object. It is possible that this memory is pulled from a newspaper or stroy she heard regarding the other brothers fate.
My theory on the dead guy in the choking game is also related to Cheryl.
The voicemessages he leaves indicates that he was not that popular a kid in school. One of them even hints that he was using a belt his mum gave him that likely caused him some grief.
Cheryl was not a popular kid either, there are plenty of scenes of her getting bullied or abused.
My theory is that the guy that hung himself was a friend of hers. I don't believe he intended to hang himself, it was likely an accident. The possiblity of Cheryl either being there when it happened, or discovering his body is what prompts the strong visual ghost echo.
I like the ironic echo in the school when she replays the prom speech. It is funny because I can sympathize with that from my own school life. The irony of a guy talking about how school days are the best days of your life is lost on someone who is obviously high up on the social ladder enough to be voiceovering the proceedings. The reality is school days for most people suck ass, and they certainly did for Cheryl judging by some of the echoes you see happening there.