Angela looking at something in the flaming stairs.

James got a letter. From a dead person. Oh dear.

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Kenji
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Post by Kenji »

RiceDaddy7 wrote:Actually, all cultures have those issues, but react to them differently.
Well, this was kinda my point. I'm afraid I'm not up on the specific cultural differences enough to make any real points by it. I was just saying that the differences in how these matters are perceived ultimately influence the perceptions of the audience. Our cultural bias may well be influencing our view of Angela's situation and we really shouldn't forget that.
Sex.
I agree with this. Every example and possibility I've listed involves sex. But sex isn't necessarily restricted to violence, and even violent sex isn't necessarily restricted to her father. I may have been heavily descending into Freud and overcomplication involving the pistons, but considering that James was allowed to interfere at all, I think his presence in that scene was "asked for" in the same way that Eddie really wanted to make James, personally, into his next example. That she wanted James involved and allowed him to come in and save her from her father's doppelganger means more than a sub-boss fight. Angela, I think, was reaching out, only to retract when she saw something she found distasteful.

Since James is a man and Angela is a woman, sex ultimately figures into the equation (yay, When Harry Met Sally), which complicates the issue and the symbols. Being abused by her father, Angela must equate physical violence with virility on a subconscious level, something non-abused females do to varying extents as it is. She also finds those displays of power disgusting, again, thanks to her father. This would be the case, I think, whether she was raped or not. It doesn't take sexual abuse to find sexuality or power displays repugnant, even as they're attractive... and SH2 is filled with cognitive dissonance.
You have to account for that when two victims of Silent Hill are within the same realm of one another, visions of what the others see may crossover. I, for one, believe Angela does see her father exactly like the doorman. It's exactly as James sees Mary as a demon in the final boss scene. Mary/demon to James is what Father/doorman is to Angela. No matter how weirdly distorted they appear, the characters recognize them. James recognizes Mary even when she was a weird demon. Therefore, it is not viewed through James lens. He is looking at him through Angela's lens. It's possible. After all, didn't he later on see her fire world too? Characters can see each others' worlds.
I don't think the doorman and the final boss, in regards to their actual designs, can be compared. The final boss has, indisputably, Mary's face. The only reason she has Mary's face is that James finally came around to accepting what he did. The doorman's about as distinct as the lying figure, the latter of which is also a representation of Mary, and we know how James reacted to it: he beat it to death, then poked it with a stick while muttering in confusion.

I think Angela has to see something at least as distinct as the final boss for her to be calling it "Daddy," which would mean she and James probably aren't seeing the same monster. For the amount of recognition that Angela displays, it just doesn't jive with me that she'd be seeing the thing that James sees.

Moreover, James beats down several copies of that thing in the hotel, when Angela isn't present. At this point, the monster has crossed over into James's world, so it must mean something to him, and James doesn't display any interest in Angela's situation or history. This is why I think the violence is more important than the sexuality, in this case, and I'll elaborate on this.

Angela's story has a core, like James's and Eddie's, and it's not that the poor girl was beaten and/or raped by her father. That's not why she's in Silent Hill. She's in Silent Hill because she flew off he handle and stabbed him multiple times, to the point where (if I recall) it was a significant detail in the article by itself. However we judge her moral position on the matter, somebody isn't convinced that what she did was right, be it herself or the powers that be in the town (I tend more toward herself, as I think the town is a passive agent).

If James's experiences are a reasonable template for those of other sinners, we can see that the core element of the Silent Hill experience is that one act that the person or powers that be find most reprehensible. In James's case, it'd be the killing of Mary. In Angela's case, it'd have to be the killing of her father and brother. This is the aspect that would constantly be resurging and being shoved violently in Angela's face, just like how feminine monsters and the masculine Pyramid Head were forcing James to constantly reenact his murder of Mary and how whatever Eddie saw was forcing him to reenact blowing out the football player's kneecap. Angela's abuse, like Mary's disease and the teasing Eddie endured, is the passive background that serves as the excuse for the act.

In other words, I think all of Angela's monsters have to represent her violence against her father, not the other way around, otherwise there's no meaning to her journey in Silent Hill. This is a major reason why I consider the violence to be the tantamount issue and why the doorman can't represent sexual or even physical abuse, thus why Burning Man's explanation ultimately resonated with me. It all comes down to proper storytelling.

Sorry for the ramble. :P I don't post that often and have too much to say... lol
Krist wrote:Granted, the photograph features Angela and her brother as children, so it is still possible that the mother died, but I thought it warranted mentioning.
I forget where, but it was on this forum. Somebody blew up the photograph to reveal that the children were blonde, suggesting that it was just some random family photo that Angela was tearing up.
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Post by Burning Man »

Just adding to Kenji's points:
RiceDaddy7 wrote:The pistons are there intentionally, that intention implies sex, and they are there specifically in Angela's scene. Put one two and three together. It equals sex. That, my friend, goes beyond Japanese/English script translations. It's also one of the most obvious statements of sexual activity relating to Angela and her father.
I think most of us agree that some sort of sexual theme can be found in the pistons. Whether they imply rape is another matter, in my opinion. The pistons are moving at a constant rate: to-and-fro, to-and-fro like a pendulum swing. I'd imagine that if it was supposed to imply rape, we'd see its movement to be more erratic: powerful movements as the head of the pistons attempt to break into the room...

(Well, I trust you've seen tentacle rape hentai from Japan...?)

The other problem is, of course, Angela's own reaction to the room. Why isn't she scared out of her wits if it's supposed to be a reflection of her worst nightmare?
The pistons, in no way, have anything to do with James.
The problem is that the room is still there when Angela leaves. There are cases when worlds cross over, yes, but at least it's in the presence of each character.
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Post by crucifix »

... so, the pistons are implying sexual motion for absolutely no reason. that makes sense.

Burning Man wrote:The other problem is, of course, Angela's own reaction to the room. Why isn't she scared out of her wits if it's supposed to be a reflection of her worst nightmare?
why isn't she scared out of her wits by an image of her dad/a horrible monster (i forgot which one she's supposed to be seeing) attacking james? she only reacts with silence, then anger.

Burning Man wrote:The problem is that the room is still there when Angela leaves. There are cases when worlds cross over, yes, but at least it's in the presence of each character.
what about eddie?
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Post by Burning Man »

crucifix wrote:... so, the pistons are implying sexual motion for absolutely no reason. that makes sense.
Just saying that it may not necessarily be about rape. Other reasons can be provided.
why isn't she scared out of her wits by an image of her dad/a horrible monster (i forgot which one she's supposed to be seeing) attacking james?
She's scared out of her wits in that one. She's cowering in fear not knowing what to do.

If I were in her shoes, the first thing I would want to do is bolt out of the room. But, no, she's standing there lecturing James...
what about eddie?
What about him?
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Post by RiceDaddy7 »

Kenji wrote:...considering that James was allowed to interfere at all, I think his presence in that scene was "asked for" in the same way that Eddie really wanted to make James, personally, into his next example. That she wanted James involved and allowed him to come in and save her from her father's doppelganger means more than a sub-boss fight. Angela, I think, was reaching out, only to retract when she saw something she found distasteful.
Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa...whoa...slow down, man.

Where did you get that James was summoned by the other characters? From what I understand they happened to bump into one another. There is nothing I remembered after my own 60+ times playing SH2 that suggested this. In no way have I felt Angela saw James as some personal savior. Every incident of them meeting was coincidence starting from their first encounter at the graveyard. Any direct relation between Angela and James is minimal at best.
kenji wrote:I don't think the doorman and the final boss, in regards to their actual designs, can be compared. The final boss has, indisputably, Mary's face. The only reason she has Mary's face is that James finally came around to accepting what he did. The doorman's about as distinct as the lying figure, the latter of which is also a representation of Mary, and we know how James reacted to it: he beat it to death, then poked it with a stick while muttering in confusion.

I think Angela has to see something at least as distinct as the final boss for her to be calling it "Daddy," which would mean she and James probably aren't seeing the same monster. For the amount of recognition that Angela displays, it just doesn't jive with me that she'd be seeing the thing that James sees.

Moreover, James beats down several copies of that thing in the hotel, when Angela isn't present. At this point, the monster has crossed over into James's world, so it must mean something to him, and James doesn't display any interest in Angela's situation or history. This is why I think the violence is more important than the sexuality, in this case, and I'll elaborate on this.
I think you're overemphasizing whether or not the Mary demon has a face is an indication for a monster being recognized by its character. Besides, the doorman faces the floor...how do we know it has a face? Does it matter? I sincerely believe if there was a playable Angela version of SH2 that the doorman scene would be her final boss and that her fire world where she meets James is her ending.

As for why the doormen are in the hospital, two theories to it, one of which has already been brought up. I'll list it first, but know I don't subscribe to it. 1.) They are there because Angela is also possibly in the hotel. He's fighting her monsters.....but that theory's got too much holes, which leads me to 2.) James saw the doorman and adapted his own, lesser version of it according to his own psyche. The doormen in the hotel are signifantly weaker, seemingly smaller than the boss doorman. They are not the same doormen.
kenji wrote:Angela's story has a core, like James's and Eddie's, and it's not that the poor girl was beaten and/or raped by her father. That's not why she's in Silent Hill. She's in Silent Hill because she flew off the handle and stabbed him multiple times, to the point where (if I recall) it was a significant detail in the article by itself. However we judge her moral position on the matter, somebody isn't convinced that what she did was right, be it herself or the powers that be in the town (I tend more toward herself, as I think the town is a passive agent).
Agreed.
kenji wrote:If James's experiences are a reasonable template for those of other sinners, we can see that the core element of the Silent Hill experience is that one act that the person or powers that be find most reprehensible. In James's case, it'd be the killing of Mary. In Angela's case, it'd have to be the killing of her father and brother. This is the aspect that would constantly be resurging and being shoved violently in Angela's face, just like how feminine monsters and the masculine Pyramid Head were forcing James to constantly reenact his murder of Mary and how whatever Eddie saw was forcing him to reenact blowing out the football player's kneecap. Angela's abuse, like Mary's disease and the teasing Eddie endured, is the passive background that serves as the excuse for the act.

In other words, I think all of Angela's monsters have to represent her violence against her father, not the other way around, otherwise there's no meaning to her journey in Silent Hill. This is a major reason why I consider the violence to be the tantamount issue and why the doorman can't represent sexual or even physical abuse, thus why Burning Man's explanation ultimately resonated with me. It all comes down to proper storytelling.
To my understanding, the monsters represent fear and repression in physical form, not necessarily what one does. How would you explain the nurses and the Siam monster of SH:HC and many more etc? They're more general concerns, not specific to one category ( i.e. punishment ). By the way, if you're now suddenly using the doorman as an example of Angela's monsters does that mean you're saying he's her monster? Don't flip-flop.
kenji wrote:Sorry for the ramble. :P I don't post that often and have too much to say... lol
That's alright. This is a good topic and a good discussion!
Burning Man wrote:I think most of us agree that some sort of sexual theme can be found in the pistons. Whether they imply rape is another matter, in my opinion. The pistons are moving at a constant rate: to-and-fro, to-and-fro like a pendulum swing. I'd imagine that if it was supposed to imply rape, we'd see its movement to be more erratic: powerful movements as the head of the pistons attempt to break into the room...

(Well, I trust you've seen tentacle rape hentai from Japan...?)
Well, I don't think the developers thought that much into it to show different variations of sex. That's my honest answer.

And no, I actually don't watch hentai tenticle sex. It's not my thing.
Burning Man wrote:The other problem is, of course, Angela's own reaction to the room. Why isn't she scared out of her wits if it's supposed to be a reflection of her worst nightmare?

The problem is that the room is still there when Angela leaves. There are cases when worlds cross over, yes, but at least it's in the presence of each character.
She *is* scared out of her wits, but that fear has turned into a combination of anger and self-defense. I don't see how she wasn't scared and angry in that scene.
Last edited by RiceDaddy7 on 12 Nov 2008, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by crucifix »

Burning Man wrote:Just saying that it may not necessarily be about rape. Other reasons can be provided.
such as?

If I were in her shoes, the first thing I would want to do is bolt out of the room. But, no, she's standing there lecturing James...
because she views him as similar to her father, as evidenced by the dialogue. "only after one thing". clearly she is not simply terrified, but incredibly angry as well.

What about him?
the area where james fights him. it keeps his images after he runs into the next room; after he dies.
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Post by The Follower »

RiceDaddy7 wrote:
Kenji wrote:...considering that James was allowed to interfere at all, I think his presence in that scene was "asked for" in the same way that Eddie really wanted to make James, personally, into his next example. That she wanted James involved and allowed him to come in and save her from her father's doppelganger means more than a sub-boss fight. Angela, I think, was reaching out, only to retract when she saw something she found distasteful.
Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa...whoa...slow down, man.

Where did you get that James was summoned by the other characters? From what I understand they happened to bump into one another. There is nothing I remembered after my own 60+ times playing SH2 that suggested this. In no way have I felt Angela saw James as some personal savior. Every incident of them meeting was coincidence starting from their first encounter at the graveyard. Any direct relation between Angela and James is minimal at best.
What appears to be coincidence in Silent Hill is hardly ever coincidence. Personally, I agree with Kenji here. Angela's line in the fire stairwell asking if he would "heal all her pain" would be indicative of this.
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Post by Kenji »

RiceDaddy7 wrote:That's alright. This is a good topic and a good discussion!
Agreed in spades. I usually don't get to go this in-depth, and disagreements force me to come to new revelations about the game. It forces me to think in new and interesting ways... in this case, I normally don't spare Angela much of a thought at all.
crucifix wrote:... so, the pistons are implying sexual motion for absolutely no reason. that makes sense.
Well, I provided an alternate possibility, which boils down to this: Angela has sex on her mind. Essentially, she let James into her struggle so he could play He-Man, turn her on, and they could have wild animal sex while the monster was draining its fluids all over the floor. Like the fantasies of that girl in the nearby Seven-Eleven, this sorta evaporated once he actually came in and beat the monster to death. Obviously, it's more complicated and nuanced than that, but that's the most basic description.

It's comparable to the violent carnal desire that erupts in a wartime situation, among soldiers and victims in a warzone.

Why James? Compare him to Eddie and ask that question again. :P

This is inevitably connected to...
RiceDaddy7 wrote:Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa...whoa...slow down, man.

Where did you get that James was summoned by the other characters? From what I understand they happened to bump into one another. There is nothing I remembered after my own 60+ times playing SH2 that suggested this. In no way have I felt Angela saw James as some personal savior. Every incident of them meeting was coincidence starting from their first encounter at the graveyard. Any direct relation between Angela and James is minimal at best.
Though I recently said "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar," I only brought that up as a possibility, even though I don't place it high on the probability list. Nothing in Silent Hill, especially in SH2, is a coincidence.

Each character in SH2 is embarking on a separate journey, unlike the other games (I haven't played Homecoming, so I can't comment on it), where the characters are guests in a single person's Silent Hill experience. They have the ability, therefore, to be just as separate from each other as they are from the real citizens of Silent Hill. Based on what the game tells us, James gets to play a dubious Kevin Bacon by interacting with the other members of the cast, who don't seem to interact with each other (Angela and Eddie never seem to meet, neither do Angela and Laura). The connections that these characters share, from general feelings of guilt and confusion (Angela and Eddie) to similar goals (Laura), allow them to meet for that first time, after which James is aware of their existence and vice-versa, allowing them to meet again (this is why, I think, Laura meets James and Eddie in the bowling alley, because she already knew they were there... which is also why Angela isn't there).

By summoning, I don't mean that Eddie, Angela, or Laura are actually saying, "Boy, I wish James was here," but whenever their paths do cross after the initial meeting, it's for a purpose. Eddie, throughout the prison, is baiting James to call him crazy, to give him an excuse to kill him (and so his erratic behavior constantly ramps up until James gives him what he wants in the fridge). Laura is constantly stumped in her search for Mary, and hopes James has answers. Angela, I think, is hoping that James will exert masculine power over her, her definition of the male role as taught by her father, so he constantly sees her in moments of weakness and helplessness.

The second time James meets Angela, she's reclined on the floor while dramatically contemplating suicide. James fails to take charge, so she immediately drops the facade (ditches the knife) and leaves. The next time he meets her, she lets him into her experience so he can play He-Man and sweep her off her feet like Fabio. Again, this doesn't work out, she berates him and leaves. The final time they meet, a despairing Angela sarcastically asks him to be her savior, and when he doesn't even offer to help her out in whatever way he can, she leaves for the last time.

All of this is subconscious of course, but I think the domineering of her father, coupled by her obvious reluctance to come to terms with her own deeds (why she's in Silent Hill), leave her a weak person who craves to be dominated. Since James won't do this, and she's probably disgusted by being so dependent anyway, so even she doesn't really want it, their meetings are very brief and ultimately go nowhere.

Hopefully, this clears up what I mean by "summoning." If it doesn't, I'm sure it'll be clearer the next time I talk about it. :lol:
RiceDaddy7 wrote:I think you're overemphasizing whether or not the Mary demon has a face is an indication for a monster being recognized by its character. Besides, the doorman faces the floor...how do we know it has a face? Does it matter? I sincerely believe if there was a playable Angela version of SH2 that the doorman scene would be her final boss and that her fire world where she meets James is her ending.
The face itself doesn't matter, it's what the face means. James doesn't recognize the monster as Mary/Maria because it has a face: it has a face because James recognizes what he did to Mary and has quit running from the fact of it. Until then, he purposefully doesn't recognize what the monsters represent, so they have no face and he goes on killing them and reenacting Mary's murder without conscience. If he continued his failure to recognize his sin, he would've invariably ended up like Eddie and Angela, spinning his wheels and going nowhere until he is consumed by the sentiments that brought him to Silent Hill in the first place (and, indeed, some of the endings reflect this).
RiceDaddy7 wrote:To my understanding, the monsters represent fear and repression in physical form, not necessarily what one does. How would you explain the nurses and the Siam monster of SH:HC and many more etc? They're more general concerns, not specific to one category ( i.e. punishment ). By the way, if you're now suddenly using the doorman as an example of Angela's monsters does that mean you're saying he's her monster? Don't flip-flop.
I don't think I'm flip-flopping on this. There is a monster there for Angela and for James. It's clear what James sees, and I think that its presence when James is alone means that it represents something to him. Considering we know a lot about James, we have a pretty good idea of what ideas the creature would have to represent: his murder of Mary.

What, exactly, Angela sees is unclear, but what is clear is 1) she sees something in the same location, and 2) she sees enough of her father's features in it to call it "Daddy." If Angela's experience is relatable and the reason for her being in Silent Hill is as we agreed upon, then whatever she sees must represent her own sin. So, the doorman itself isn't her monster, but there is a monster that she sees in its place that conforms to her Silent Hill experience, one that James must be able to relate to in some way if he's able to also interact with the monster and for it to leave enough of an impression on his mind that it continues to stalk him after that confrontation.

In other words, they see two separate versions of a very similar idea, the same reason why James can see Eddie's victims and why they start morphing into lying figures as James comes closer to realizing the truth.

I believe the powers of Silent Hill extract what the viewer wants to ignore. In the case of James, Angela, and Eddie, these are fresh sins that they haven't accepted, so they are front and center. This is the theme of SH2, which makes it unique from the other games. In SH1, what's buried in Alessa's mind is the reality of her eternal decay (the Otherworld) and the persecution she experienced throughout her life (the number and ferocity of the monsters). Heather is no different, but her experience might be stronger because of her more active repression of these memories. Walter is both haunted by his fears (the monsters) and his sins (the victims). I can't speak for Travis and his synergy with Alessa, since I haven't finished Origins, nor can I speak for Alex, since I haven't played Homecoming.

Anyway, the important thing is SH2's theme, that being one of acceptance of sin and deciding what to do about it. Everything in that story, therefore, revolves around that theme. Laura is the only unique case, as she is sinless, and therefore is plagued by her feelings of abandonment (hence, why she appears to see an empty town).

Again, rambled, hope that was intelligible.
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Post by Droo »

Burning Man wrote: If I were in her shoes, the first thing I would want to do is bolt out of the room. But, no, she's standing there lecturing James...
She has just killed an image of her father in a rage, and is in emotional shock. She stands there, motionless for a few moments, until James approaches and reaches out to touch her again. She turns on him and, still running high on the adrenaline in her system, continues to take out her feelings of rage and disgust on James. She has learned about Mary, somehow, and knows that James killed her. She likely identifies with Mary, as another innocent female who has been the target of a selfish, evil (at least in Angela's eyes) man. I imagine at this point her emotions and perceptions are all over the place. She is in full-on psychotic mode at this particular moment, and probably isn't even paying attention to the pistons on the wall.
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Post by Mis Krist. »

>Why isn't she scared out of her wits if it's supposed to be a reflection of her worst nightmare?

As stated before, she does show fear and frustration but you also have to understand this kind of numbing / severing of emotional respond that coincides with trauma, which is what I think Angela was basically doing for a good deal of the darn game.
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Post by Droo »

Krist. wrote: As stated before, she does show fear and frustration but you also have to understand this kind of numbing / severing of emotional respond that coincides with trauma, which is what I think Angela was basically doing for a good deal of the darn game.
Agreed. Angela has two modes in this game:

1) Emotionally bizarre and all over the place
2) Robotic and detached. Remember the scene in the apartment buidling. She's laying on the floor, her voice is flat and void of affect. When James questions her, she feebly mutters "I don't know" to questions. She seems in a daze.
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Post by Burning Man »

It looks like neither of you understood my point. I wasn't asking for justification as to why Angela is acting the way she is.

The debate is whether that room is a reflection of Angela's dark emotions, or if it only looks that way because we are seeing it through James' eyes. My point is that Angela never acknowledges her surroundings, so we don't know that Angela is seeing the same room that we are seeing.

The "abstract daddy" monster can be used to weaken your point as Kenji has demonstrated. We are looking at a monster, but Angela herself is calling it "daddy". This brings up the possibility that Angela and James may be seeing two different figures.

The same logic can be applied to the room itself i.e. the image of the pistons that you assume are from Angela's psyche may actually be a fabrication from James' mind. And, we know that James is capable of such.

In other words, just because we can agree that the pistons have sexual theme associated with them does not mean that Angela was sexually abused. That's a leap in reasoning.
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Post by crucifix »

Burning Man wrote:The debate is whether that room is a reflection of Angela's dark emotions, or if it only looks that way because we are seeing it through James' eyes.
so... even james assumes she was sexually abused?

Burning Man wrote:The same logic can be applied to the room itself i.e. the image of the pistons that you assume are from Angela's psyche may actually be a fabrication from James' mind. And, we know that James is capable of such.
okay, but like i said - what about eddie? and for what reasons are the pistons there, doing what they're doing?

Burning Man wrote:In other words, just because we can agree that the pistons have sexual theme associated with them does not mean that Angela was sexually abused. That's a leap in reasoning.
not when coupled with the other pieces of apparent evidence.
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Post by Kenji »

crucifix wrote:so... even james assumes she was sexually abused?
I love how this statement seems to imply that there can't be sexual imagery without sexual abuse being involved or assumed. Makes me wonder what Frank must've put poor James through... :lol:
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Post by amphreded »

>In other words, just because we can agree that the pistons have sexual theme associated with them does not mean that Angela was sexually abused. That's a leap in reasoning.

It's not really a leap. If from other accumulated supports the player thinks that Angela was sexually abused, then the pistons would add on to that opinion.
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Post by Mis Krist. »

>I love how this statement seems to imply that there can't be sexual imagery without sexual abuse being involved or assumed.

Snarkiness, gtfo. Not exactly, since it doesn't take a rocket scientist to observe Angela's behavior, the things she says, and then the room she was in and think "Huh, somethin' ain't right about that."
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The Adversary
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Post by The Adversary »

>and for what reasons are the pistons there, doing what they're doing?
The common theory regarding the sexualization of the monsters is because of James' sexual repression. Why must this application be any different?

> [. . .] and think "Huh, somethin' ain't right about that."
Yet Angela doesn't respond to the environment in a way that would be indicative of her being sexually abused. She yells, "Daddy, don't!" then cowers while James kills the Ideal Father. Afterward, she deals the finishing blow, lectures James, and exits—not once alluding to the alleged "rape walls." Something may not be "right about that" for James, but Angela's reaction to the monster, as a human instead, implies that she's seeing something that James isn't.

>this statement seems to imply that there can't be sexual imagery without sexual abuse
This thread is full of equivocal fallacies, why stop now?
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Post by Kenji »

Krist. wrote:Snarkiness, gtfo. Not exactly, since it doesn't take a rocket scientist to observe Angela's behavior, the things she says, and then the room she was in and think "Huh, somethin' ain't right about that."
But snarkiness is what I'm made out of... :cry: Well, that, stardust, and awesome sauce.

Well, clearly Angela isn't in that realm of normal behavior or, again, she wouldn't be in Silent Hill (or, there'd be a lot more people having Silent Hill experiences). The question is what the issue is. Abuse is necessary, considering her behavior and the excuse she needed to kill off at least one (if not two) member of her family.

Above, I provided an alternate explanation for her behavior, her scenes, and the imagery involved, with very little sarcasm involved, because I don't think sexual abuse is actually necessary. Instead, I focused on her perceptions of male power, her conditioned dependence on that power, both of which fed into her interactions with James, all while keeping focus on the actual reason she's in Silent Hill and therefore most important factor of her story: the murder of her father, who exerted that power over her.

Is it right? I dunno, but it seemed consistent when I wrote it down.
Last edited by Kenji on 13 Nov 2008, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Droo »

We have reached an impasse. You will never, ever acquiese to the other side of the argument in this thread, and we clearly aren't inclined to do the same. We can argue back and forth like this until we're blue in the face, but to do so seems sort of pants-on-head retarded given this stalemate we have clearly reached.
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Post by Burning Man »

>It's not really a leap. If from other accumulated supports the player thinks that Angela was sexually abused, then the pistons would add on to that opinion.

I don't mind that. If people want to believe that the pistons support the idea of Angela having been sexually abused, then that's fine by me.

But, some people are saying that the pistons imply sexual abuse: that the pistons are evidence, and that there's absolutely no other way to look at it. However, we know that if alternate interpretations can be made about a subject, we can't call it evidence.

I think some people are using the term "imply" and "evidence" a little too freely.

>We have reached an impasse. You will never, ever acquiese to the other side of the argument in this thread, and we clearly aren't inclined to do the same. We can argue back and forth like this until we're blue in the face, but to do so seems sort of pants-on-head retarded given this stalemate we have clearly reached.

You've stated that a couple of times already... Can you try to let other people just discuss if they want to?
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