Reasons why Mary did not stay at Brookhaven **SPOILERS**

[The Adversary]

There ya go again, SP'87.

>SH3 kinda nailed the coffin closed with me regarding that possibility.
Except for those non-mentally insane persons staying in Brookhaven Hospital. . . .

[amphreded]

Posts removed.
Further irrelevants posts will be removed.

[AuraTwilight]

Where's the proof of that. This has already been discussed previously in the thread :/... It's a main point of contention actually. You may believe this is true, but it's just not a fact you can rely on for your argument, sorry

It is a fact. It's a HOSPITAL, not a mental asylum. You can even find medical equipment.

Like I've said a billion times, I believe Brookhaven is about James, it shows his true nature. That's why it is significant. Why would James also go to the apartment complex or the historical society... These places are just as random a choice as Brookhaven is, and yet they move the plot forward through the imagery and implications they give us. I mean, come on, these are bizarre choices and yet they work SO well!

James and Mary went to the Historical Society. He went through the Apartments because everwhere else is blocked off.

The town is a power that is basically unexplainable, except it manifests desires (bad ones) of the people that are "called" to it. Each character involved in Silent Hill has a peculiar destiny, they go there, or are trapped, or get stuck there for strange reasons. Cybil was stuck, she is a very red-herring character... I can see you being able to easily say this about Cybil... But Laura? She has direct ties to James, Mary, and somehow to Eddie (I still believe she got a ride with him)... As strange as it is for an 8 year-old child to appear there, it still fits very well with the plot. Laura was there for a reason, be it whether she (or anyone else) was "called"... And also, just because she is innocent doesn't mean the town has no influence whatsoever over her... As she is a person, with a heart... I mean, we don't even know what she sees.

The town doesn't manifest purely bad desires and thoughts, as evidenced numerous times. Laura is an innocent, we all acknowledge this, and she's not deluded or deceived in any way. James and company were summoned to the town by manipulating their delusions. James and Angela got non-existent letters, for example. Laura, however, made a logical conclusion and went to a "quiet, beautiful place" like Mary described: Silent Hill, the most logical place for her to go in Laura's mind. There's no supernatural pull involved in Laura's case.

[Monobrow]

It is a mental hospital. That's the only fact you can go on. It is also a fact that the only people mentioned as patients of Brookhaven had mental problems. There are no other patients listed or mentioned that do not have some sort of psychiatric problem. Everything else is just assumption.

The amount of medical equipment this hospital has is irrelevant as well to your argument. All psychiatric hospitals are required to have the bare minimum of equipment in case of emergency. When you look at the map and see what Brookhaven has to offer, it looks pretty much like your standard amount for a psychiatric hospital, in case patients have violent episodes, etc.


This also makes it less likely that Brookhaven even had any means to take care of terminally ill people with a special disease such as Mary had. It's a leap in logic, and nothing but pure assumption. I don't have any beef in you believing it, but I will however, call you on stating that any of this is factual and not just your spin on it.

He went through the Apartments because everwhere else is blocked off.

So ask yourself, why were the apartments the only way through? Why was there a block in the road in the first place, forcing James to go into those apartments? What is the significance of THOSE apartments? I certainly don't think James had to go through them JUST because they had some significance pertaining towards Mary, which was my point in the first place. James goes to places that weren't SPECIFICALLY significant to Mary (as in OMG she was there, she STAYED THERE), and yet they are important to the plot anyway. We still get hints of Mary within them, because these hints are probably manifests from James' psyche. I am sure Mary and James didn't go to the meatlocker either

There's no supernatural pull involved in Laura's case.

If Laura got a ride from Eddie, it sure is an amazing coincidence. If not, it's amazing that she got there at all by herself. It's also amazing that you seem to think that Laura had no real purpose in the story, and just happened to be there, one of the ONLY people that James can see out of (for all we know) a still populated town. She is significant towards the story, period. She's an important character with a role to play, and if you really think that her happenstance being there isn't influenced at all by the powers that be (or James' desires), or fate or what have you, then what do you think? I'm really curious now.

[Burning Man]

It is a mental hospital. That's the only fact you can go on.

Sure, but that's not very relevant to the discussion, actually.

The fallacy in your argument is that Mary, who is a terminally ill patient, would not be sent to a mental hospital. Your whole argument is based on this thought. Some people think this is "common sense," but the truth is that it has no basis. Plenty of terminally ill patients are treated in mental hospitals. The term that people should familiarize themselves with is "hospice." And, the question is, can Brookhaven serve as a hospice. The point isn't to suggest that Brookhaven is a general hospital: only that Brookhaven has the facility for those in need of immediate medical attention. Mary is dying; medical care is the last thing she needs.

Mary can be sent to Brookhaven for hospice care, and it's in Silent Hill.

Some people think "insane asylum" when they hear "mental hospital," but that's too much. Brookhaven has a garden, a pool, among other recreation facilities that anyone can see that the hospital isn't just for locking up lunatics. There's a special wing for those kinds of people, namely the 'S' wing. No-one suggested that Mary was locked up in there.

Hay guys, Mary stayed in Brookhaven because she wrote the diary, and she wrote the diary because she stayed at Brookhaven

No, the idea came up because the contents of the diary seem to match with that of Mary's letter.

[DamienPales]

If Mary stayed in Brookhaven, I'd rather believe that she stayed in that room that Maria took a rest in, basically mimicking Mary's sickbed. It always seemed rather odd that Maria just decided to lie down on that bed, replete with a bottle of pills at the bedside. James also seems a bit freaked out by that whole scene.

[Monobrow]

The term that people should familiarize themselves with is "hospice." And, the question is, can Brookhaven serve as a hospice.

Some people think "insane asylum" when they hear "mental hospital," but that's too much. Brookhaven has a garden, a pool, among other recreation facilities that anyone can see that the hospital isn't just for locking up lunatics.

That's better. My argument was completely geared towards Aura's, which was that Brookhaven is both a mental and general hospital, which does not seem to be the case in the games. On the contrary, the place seems very specialized. And don't forget, in SH3 it seemed as though all psychiatric patients stayed in multiple floors.

Also about your garden and pool statement, that's actually a trait that many psychiatric hospitals have. They are used for various therapies to calm the mind and body. I don't know many general hospitals that have either. So it still says to me that Brookhaven is your standard psychiatric hospital, nothing more.

The only true reason I say this as the only fact, is because there really isn't anything given in either SH2 or SH3, out of the two times we visit it, to show us that Brookhaven is anything more than asylum.

Could it serve as a hospice? Yes certainly, anything is possible, but there's no evidence of this, unless you assume that Mary needed that kind of care to stay there. This aside, it would depend on the treatment Mary needs, and while I can understand your point that Mary is dying soon so it's no big deal to transfer her... I still think that making such a big transfer on a dying woman probably isn't in her best interest.

She would have to specifically request the transfer. And while I do see this as a possibility (in general)... I still don't think there are enough dots to connect to really say that she did, or even would have done it under the circumstances she was in, or specifically, would go to Brookhaven of all the places she can go.

Here are a stipulations and assumptions you have to make for this argument to work.

1. Mary would have had to had psychiatric problems around the time of her death, including suicidal thoughts. If that diary was hers, her behavior in Brookhaven doesn't seem to gel naturally with the state of mind evidenced in her letters to Laura and James. I'm going on the evidence the game gives me, as to the state of mind Mary had before her death. And I'm going on the fact that Laura had nothing bad to say about Mary... And the assumption that Laura's presence had changed her for the better. The power of wanting to be a mother to a child in her life can be VERY strong. Maybe Mary wanted to be strong for Laura, to be a good presence in her life? It all boils down to how she seemed to be fine in her letters.

2. She would have had to have written her final post-mortem letters to James and Laura separately. This also requires for Laura to have gotten her letter from Rachel's locker, and to have randomly gotten the other letter from... Well we have no idea, but the assumption is somewhere in Brookhaven. I don't subscribe to this for two reasons. The first is that it just doesn't seem natural for Mary to have written that letter to Laura... Be transferred to Brookhaven, and then after writing that diary with the tone of depression and suicide, write that letter that was completely truthful and full of love and acceptance. It just seems like she was two different people. The other reason is that there just isn't any game evidence of any of this.

3. The meaning behind her final letter to Laura would have to be twisted entirely to fit this view. I still believe that Laura's letter was a letter meant to be given to a child who is about to lose someone. Mary saying she was in a quiet, beautiful place can easily be taken as Mary trying to explain where people go after they die to an 8 year-old child. The fact that Laura believes that Mary went to Silent Hill is the natural assumption of a child that doesn't understand or doesn't want to believe that Mary is dead, which is why she went there. I don't believe that just because Laura took this literally that we should as well.

4. The other candidate for the diary entry, Jack Davis, would have to be overlooked. If it's your personal preference, well that's fine with me. But you do have to ignore that Jack's other basement's basement memo is written in a similar style to the diary. You also have to ignore the obvious link between a suicidal patient and a suicidal diary.

5. You have to ignore the implied suicidal trail off, and the possibility that the writer of the diary committed suicide after abruptly ending their last entry. The diary trails off, the pages are scattered everywhere... The fencing is loose in a certain place. These are all things that seem to be there for a reason. To say Mary wrote the diary is to say that none of these things should be taken into account. NOT TO MENTION Stanley Coleman's cryptic comment in SH3 about the rooftop making you want to "fly"... The last entry tells us that the person who wrote the diary was told to go home, not that they were any better. The previous entry shows us clearly that the person isn't ready to leave.

6. You have to believe that Brookhaven was the logical if not best option presented if she went back to Silent Hill: to beat a dead horse... Even though I don't believe that Mary got to go back to Silent Hill at "all" except for in spirit ... Alchemilla seems a much more fitting place for someone like Mary to go if she wanted a peaceful stay. I honestly believe that staying in a psychiatric hospital with the nature of Brookhaven just wouldn't be the right place for her... The stipulation being, not only is she dying, but she's not right in the head, and is surrounded by people that can't cope with life? You also have to believe that Brookhaven had the means of taking care of her, and being as this game gives none, it's pure assumption. That's fine, but you have to recognize that it as such. Hospice capabilities or no, I can't refute the possibility, however I can refute that there's any evidence showing this is true.

7. Mary had to transfer to Brookhaven for an explicit reason that the game just doesn't tells us about. You don't need to be in a psychiatric facility to have psychiatric treatment. Any old hospital will do, and has a psychologist on board to talk to patients. This means that the bed-ridden Mary could have been taken care of in Silent Hill in many other places. While I believe that she never got to go back, if she did go back, I still don't think Brookhaven would have been the place.

To me, it just doesn't make sense for someone seemingly okay with the world (like Mary was in the end according to her letters and at LEAST according to her letter with Laura) and accepting of her fate to be taken to a psychiatric hospital and not allowed to "go out", feel depressed and suicidal, and be seemingly mistreated or neglected suddenly by the doctors, given meds that make her question her sanity and well-being etc... It still just doesn't make any sense to me.

8. You have to take Mary's "Well, I'm alone there now, in our special place" literally. As has been said before, I certainly don't see Brookhaven as being their special place. Besides, the letter is just too vague in many ways to say exactly what she means. My assumption is that Mary meant that she was in Silent Hill in spirit... Waiting for James to come around and forgive her and forgive himself, as is evidenced in the rest of her letter to him. To be happy like they once were before she got sick, when they stayed in the hotel. This is my opinion, but all of the above reasons lead me to believe that my assumptions are natural.

THE END. Oh and "ahhhhhhh"

[Nowh3re]

>If that diary was hers, her behavior in Brookhaven doesn't seem to gel naturally with the state of mind evidenced in her letters to Laura and James.
It's not really nice to scare a child telling by telling them that you're going through a lot of suffering and sadness and that you can't do anything about it. Mary wanted Laura to believe that she was fine and that she would be going to a "quiet, beaufiful place".
Her letter to James, although being truthful and full of love and acceptance, still holds a lot of bitterness towards her state. "I feel so pathetic and ugly laying here, waiting for you… Every day I stare up at the cracks in the ceiling and all I can think about is how unfair it all is…"

>The fencing is loose in a certain place.
If anyone had jumped from that fence they wouldn't fall to their deaths, they'd fall on Brookhaven's roof.

>You also have to ignore the obvious link between a suicidal patient and a suicidal diary.
Just because it's obvious doesn't mean it's necessarily true.

>The last entry tells us that the person who wrote the diary was told to go home, not that they were any better. The previous entry shows us clearly that the person isn't ready to leave.
A patient who has a "pattern of sudden and violent attempts" clearly isn't ready to leave the hospital wouldn't be released.
A terminal ill patient would be released in order to spend their final moments home, with people they love.

I'd also like to note something: "If I'm only better when I'm drugged, then who am I anyway?" and "Look! I’m disgusting! I don’t deserve flowers. Between the disease and the drugs, I look like a monster" seem to match each other.

[AuraTwilight]

So ask yourself, why were the apartments the only way through? Why was there a block in the road in the first place, forcing James to go into those apartments? What is the significance of THOSE apartments? I certainly don't think James had to go through them JUST because they had some significance pertaining towards Mary, which was my point in the first place. James goes to places that weren't SPECIFICALLY significant to Mary (as in OMG she was there, she STAYED THERE), and yet they are important to the plot anyway. We still get hints of Mary within them, because these hints are probably manifests from James' psyche. I am sure Mary and James didn't go to the meatlocker either

The meatlocker was Eddie's world, so it's not really comparable. You make a good argument otherwise, but I felt it was pretty obvious, imo, that James was blocking access to Rosewater Park (I think it's called), and thus had to go through the apartments in order to make his journey unnecessarily long; procrastinating and such. I also find it very, very odd and significant that EVERYONE visiting Silent Hill is in the apartments at the same time, and that might be part of the ultimate reason James goes there. (The Apartments are still different though, in that James does not need to go through the Hospital to physically access another place. They're a detour).

If Laura got a ride from Eddie, it sure is an amazing coincidence. If not, it's amazing that she got there at all by herself. It's also amazing that you seem to think that Laura had no real purpose in the story, and just happened to be there, one of the ONLY people that James can see out of (for all we know) a still populated town. She is significant towards the story, period. She's an important character with a role to play, and if you really think that her happenstance being there isn't influenced at all by the powers that be (or James' desires), or fate or what have you, then what do you think? I'm really curious now.

Woah, woah woah, hold the fucking phone, I did not say Laura had no purpose to the story. One doesn't need to be SUMMONED to the town to enter the Otherworld and interact with the other characters. Yes, it is amazing she did all that on her own. It's a testament of her determination to meet Mary, which is arguably stronger than James'. Laura went to the town on her own volition to look for Mary, who vanished from her life just days before. The time table is realistic and not reliant on any massive handwaves of fate.

I do not personally believe that there's a sentient supernatural being controlling the Otherworld, and that the Otherworld has and "agenda" when it's manifesting thoughts. Moreso, if not for Lost Memories, I wouldn't even believe the town calls people, because our only reason to think so is Eddie's word, and he's all too eager to pass the blame to excuse his own actions.

Back to the point, Laura's actions, past, behavior, and involvement are simple. Simple, and unobscured. She's a child, so this is practically intrinsic, but even moreso in that she is the game's personification of truth, from a meta-perspective.

If Mary stayed in Brookhaven, I'd rather believe that she stayed in that room that Maria took a rest in, basically mimicking Mary's sickbed. It always seemed rather odd that Maria just decided to lie down on that bed, replete with a bottle of pills at the bedside. James also seems a bit freaked out by that whole scene.

I totally agree.

[Monobrow]

Mary wanted Laura to believe that she was fine and that she would be going to a "quiet, beaufiful place".

Yup, which was exactly my point. I was trying to refute the argument that Mary was specifically telling Laura that she was going to Silent Hill, which is what a lot of people are trying to say about Mary's letter to Laura. Like you, I believe she was trying in the best way she could to tell a little kid that she was dying and going to the afterlife. It was Laura that took this literally as Silent Hill, because Mary had talked about it being peaceful etc.

Hell, maybe heaven to Mary would be like going to Silent Hill again, and experiencing that joy she had lost, which would also explain to me why she could be talking once again about Silent Hill metaphorically in her letter to James.

Her letter to James, although being truthful and full of love and acceptance, still holds a lot of bitterness towards her state. "I feel so pathetic and ugly laying here, waiting for you… Every day I stare up at the cracks in the ceiling and all I can think about is how unfair it all is…"

This is true, the letter goes through a whole sort of mourning process. Mary is basically reliving everything from start to finish in that letter, all the pain and sadness, the hurt and tragedy... But the point of that letter is she has reached that state of peace and acceptance by the end. She wishes James well and pleads for forgiveness and for him to be happy, and is grateful for the good times. She burns out with grace.

If anyone had jumped from that fence they wouldn't fall to their deaths, they'd fall on Brookhaven's roof.

There's this thing where people can do things like push fencing down, and figure out which direction they are going to jump, and deduce whether or not they should aim for the roof below or aim for the ground past it.

Just because it's obvious doesn't mean it's necessarily true.

At least you admitted it was obvious. Anyway, I'm not the one saying any of this is true... These are just my beliefs. This thread is about refuting a theory that someone keeps claiming to be the only truth about Silent Hill 2. The purpose is to give others who believe differently the chance to refute the numerous claims that even though they disagree, they are wrong forever and MY WAY IS THE ONLY WAY etc. etc.

A terminal ill patient would be released in order to spend their final moments home, with people they love.

That still begs the question of why she would be there in the first place, and why she would be "released" to go home a week later. What was the necessity of her being there? To spend her final days in Brookhaven? But then why would she want to go home to James?

That being said, Jack Davis was calm, and a model patient. It could very well be said that he was doing fine in front of the doctors, with only the diary to explain how he truly feels... Eventually the doctors have to assess their patients, and if their patient is showing no signs, well there you have it. Since there are no real warning signs for his sudden suicide attempts, and assuming that Jack isn't going to be in Brookhaven his entire life... Maybe the traumatic experience of being released and told to go home spurred him into his last VIOLENT RAGE OF SUICIDE OMGAGKHALGAkg which apparently no one ever sees coming.

As in, peaceful but despondent entry 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, then I have to go home -------- trail off and VIOLENT SUICIDE ATTEMPT AHHHHHhhfhdaslg...

Makes sense to me.

Also, I honestly believe the doctors made a mistake if Jack wrote the diary. That adds to the burn of the diary's theme. Someone is so obviously ill, questioning life, not able to cope, and yet they are told to go home... When I read the diary, it made me just so sad, because I felt like this person wasn't getting the help they needed. They were unable to be helped and fell through the cracks one last time. This is the cruelty of modern medicine.

I'd also like to note something: "If I'm only better when I'm drugged, then who am I anyway?" and "Look! I’m disgusting! I don’t deserve flowers. Between the disease and the drugs, I look like a monster" seem to match each other.

I really don't see a direct correlation. Mary is talking about the drugs having a physical impact on her. You know how chemotherapy affects the looks of those who have to undergo it? You know how some drugs, in order to cure, are hugely harsh on the body? She was sickly from the medicine, and she had marks all over her body from the disease.

Also do you really honestly think the writer of the diary is talking about a physical illness? This is the kind of question a person who is mentally ill asks. I have a friend who is a diagnosed schizophrenic and he often neglects or downright refuses to take medicine. Why? For the very same reason that the writer of that diary expressed. Drugs make you into a different person, they pacify and calm you. They make you feel and do things you wouldn't normally in order to "cure" you. But they can also take away so many traits about the person you feel "you" are. In other words "Who am I anyway?"


Besides, why use Mary's dialogue when the theme about doctors and the ethics of "curing" mental illness is pervading throughout the hospital itself?

The potential for this illness exists in all people and, under the right
circumstances, any man or woman would be driven, like him, to "the other
side." The "other side' perhaps may not be the best way to phrase it.
After all, there is no wall between here and there. It lies on the
borders where reality and unreality intersect. It is a place both close
and distant. Some say it isn't even an illness. I cannot agree with them.
I'm a doctor, not a philosopher or even a psychiatrist. But sometimes I
have to ask myself this question. It's true that to us his imaginings are
nothing but the inventions of a busy mind. But to him, there simply is no
other reality. Furthermore he is happy there. So why, I ask myself, why
in the name of healing him must we drag him painfully into the world of
our own reality?

Hey Aura not to leave you hanging or anything, just a bit burnt out, will get to your stuff later

[The Adversary]

>This is true, the letter goes through a whole sort of mourning process.
The letter also indicates she's writing it in Silent Hill.

>What was the necessity of her being there?
She was suicidal. Brookhaven Hospital's doctors were treating her depression, to prevent suicide. After all, they were "making a nice profit off [her]."

[Nowh3re]

>which would also explain to me why she could be talking once again about Silent Hill metaphorically in her letter to James.
That argument is double-edged. She could be talking literally as well: She's in Silent Hill, her place of memories, remembering the happiness she once had with James.

>But the point of that letter is she has reached that state of peace and acceptance by the end.
"These last few years since I became ill... I'm so sorry for what I did to you, did to us... You've given me so much and I haven't been able to return a single thing."
Acceptance? Yeah. Peace? Not really… She regrets for all that happened even after accepting that she's going to die.

>There's this thing where people can do things like push fencing down, [...] and deduce whether or not they should aim for the roof below or aim for the ground past it.
A "sudden, violent suicide attempt" doesn't give you much time to calculate what's the best way to kill yourself.

That still begs the question of why she would be there in the first place, and why she would be "released" to go home a week later.
Like Tom said, she was depressive and suicidal. Her condition got even worse during the week, causing the doctors to release her and let her "enjoy" her last moments with James.

>To spend her final days in Brookhaven? But then why would she want to go home to James?
"James. Where are you? I'm waiting. I'm waiting for you. Please come to me. Do you hate me? Is that why you won't come?"
I believe that just being in Silent Hill wasn't comforting enough for Mary like she first thought it'd be. She was in her place of memories, but she wasn't with the person that she loved the most — causing her depression to get worse. That's why, even though Mary's in Silent Hill, she still want to be with James. And just because the doctors said she must go home doesn't necessarily mean that she must go home, she could have gone with James to an "undisclosed location" and we know what happens after that.

>Besides, why use Mary's dialogue when the theme about doctors and the ethics of "curing" mental illness is pervading throughout the hospital itself?
My mistake. I should have separated the sentences.

[Monobrow]

Ugh, I was going to post uber huge again, however I am taking a trip to Mexico

So see ya'll next week.

[Burning Man]

Well, I gave the thread some time to settle down a bit as I said I would.

She would have to specifically request the transfer. And while I do see this as a possibility (in general)... I still don't think there are enough dots to connect to really say that she did, or even would have done it under the circumstances she was in, or specifically, would go to Brookhaven of all the places she can go.

Actually, I should have gotten this out of the way first. The reason that we're considering that Mary could have stayed in Brookhaven isn't because it's a "possible" scenario. We all know that possibilities are endless, and if we were to create theories based on possibilities, then it would be no different to writing fan-fiction.

The reason that we are considering such a scenario is because initially Mary was supposed to be a character with dual personality. Lost Memories talks about this, but one of the official Silent Hill 2 guidebooks has an interview with Imamura, the producer at the time, that the scenario went through two directional changes before it was finalized.

The thing about the story to a videogame is that it's one of the last elements to be completed. However, during that time, development continues: worlds are built, textures are created, models are animated, memos are written, etc. etc. The developers are not going to wait for the scenario to be finished until they start developing.

If you were to spend time examining the innards of Silent Hill 2, you will find plenty of "leftovers" from previous scenarios. I don't believe the significance of those elements change simply because the scenario changed direction.

You would be correct to think that Brookhaven was for James, but then again, this is possible because the initial scenario had James with dual personality, one we call "Joseph", and the final scenario still retained James' psychological issues. It's not coincidental that there's a "Joseph" in Brookhaven, for example, and that there's a memo about personality disorders. If we take this into account, then Mary, who also had dual personality in the intial scenario would have originally been a patient there as well. Correspondingly, the developers would have created elements related to Mary in Brookhaven.

For the final version of the game, if we speculate that Mary was indeed sent to Silent Hill, then the only natural place she should go is Brookhaven, not Alchemilla, not anywhere else. Brookhaven is littered with Mary's essence; Alchemilla is not even on the map.

"Stipulation and assumptions" are very easy to argue once we have a good reason to put Mary in Brookhaven in that regard.

1. Mary would have had to had psychiatric problems around the time of her death, including suicidal thoughts. If that diary was hers, her behavior in Brookhaven doesn't seem to gel naturally with the state of mind evidenced in her letters to Laura and James.

The letter to Laura isn't going to sound different since Mary and Laura got along well enough together. Mary loved Laura regardless of what mind state she was in. She's not going to sound "suicidal" in her letter to Laura. In fact, if I were in Mary's shoes, I would take extra caution to tell her that everything was okay.

You may have a point comparing the diary to her letter to James, however, since we know that Mary has no problem telling James exactly how she feels.

I can agree with you that the state of mind evidenced in both literature is different in a way. But to me, the letter has more resolution than the diary does, and all this means is that the letter was written after the last entry in the diary presumably after Mary found some resolution in being sent home to James. Other than that, both literature have more in common with each other: they both talk about how nothing changes; in the Japanese script at least, both authors are "restless"; they both talk about speaking with the doctor; the diary talks about having someone grieve for this person should he/she die, while the letter is for someone who does grieve for her after her death.

The difference in state of mind doesn't necessarily mean that they were written by two different people. It may just mean that the exact same person was - you guessed it - in a different state of mind.

2. She would have had to have written her final post-mortem letters to James and Laura separately. This also requires for Laura to have gotten her letter from Rachel's locker, and to have randomly gotten the other letter from...

That was one of the initial speculations, but it's still possible to have had Laura acquire both letters from Rachel's locker, actually. Laura need not have acquired them separately from two different places.

The logic is simple: Rachel followed Mary to Brookhaven as her caretaker. When Mary was discharged from the hospital to go home, Rachel returned to the other hospital with the two letters for Laura and James, and put them in her locker until the day she was to send them each recipient. Laura finds the letters in the locker, and takes them with her to Silent Hill.

This is where the whole "hospice" thing comes into play. Rachel was their nurse. James would have been the first natural choice as her caretaker, but then again... So the next candidate mentioned in the game at all is Rachel.

3. The meaning behind her final letter to Laura would have to be twisted entirely to fit this view.

Not necessarily. Only Mary's location of writing the letter would have changed. The "quiet, beautiful place" does not even have to mean that she's writing that from Silent Hill. A farewell letter is still a farewell letter no matter where you write it from.

4. The other candidate for the diary entry, Jack Davis, would have to be overlooked. If it's your personal preference, well that's fine with me. But you do have to ignore that Jack's other basement's basement memo is written in a similar style to the diary. You also have to ignore the obvious link between a suicidal patient and a suicidal diary.

It's odd that you bring up the basement memo because the only thing they share is correct grammar. The owner of the diary was suicidal, but the author of the basement memo seems scared shitless. There's also a definite contrast in how the diary is found on the roof, while the basement memo is found in underground. Do you really think both were written by the same person?

I believe people have already voiced why Jack's authorship of the diary is problematic, so it's certainly not being "overlooked."

5. You have to ignore the implied suicidal trail off, and the possibility that the writer of the diary committed suicide after abruptly ending their last entry.

Actually, you'd have to ignore something first: that the day that entry was made, the weather was clear. The weather was rainy for all the other days. Silent Hill 2, a game of symbolism, uses weather effects to portray the character's mind state... I don't know about you, but a clear day doesn't signify suicide for me.

Your thinking that the trail off is "suicidal" is a matter of personal preference, in my opinion.

NOT TO MENTION Stanley Coleman's cryptic comment in SH3 about the rooftop making you want to "fly"...

Being suicidal doesn't "imply" that the author killed himself in the end. Implications don't happen that way.

The last entry tells us that the person who wrote the diary was told to go home, not that they were any better. The previous entry shows us clearly that the person isn't ready to leave.

What the previous entries show is that this person is uncertain. Not surprisingly, Mary's letter to James also shows a bit of uncertainty in Mary, namely she isn't sure what to expect from James.

In the case of the diary, the last entry notes that it's a clear day; Mary's letter to James tells him how happy she is to return home... You make the connection here.

6. You have to believe that Brookhaven was the logical if not best option presented if she went back to Silent Hill: to beat a dead horse...

7. Mary had to transfer to Brookhaven for an explicit reason that the game just doesn't tells us about.

The initial scenario I talked about earlier: If the developers were to put Mary in Silent Hill, then there's no other place but Brookhaven. They spent too much time putting her essence there. It is the "best" option by design.

8. You have to take Mary's "Well, I'm alone there now, in our special place" literally. As has been said before, I certainly don't see Brookhaven as being their special place.

I don't see why you would think Mary is referring to Brookhaven as their special place. I mean, the developers went out of their way to describe what dark history it has and everything. She's just talking about Silent Hill in general, the place she sees in her restless dreams. James himself says it: this whole town was [their] special place, and only decides to look for her in certain places because she can't be everywhere at once.

[OverlordMikey]

I wonder why we argue about these things…
I mean if one considers the kind of game Silent Hill is then it says more about us than the game that we argue about something that is like fifty percent (if not more) interpretation. Some believe that she went to Brookhaven some think she didn’t. In the end both hold water.

For example the line in the letter about her special place could be seen as literal or metaphorical. It's one thing to discuss our diffrent beliefs, but it feels more like people are trying to force each other to conform to one idea or the other....

[alone in the town]

>I wonder why we argue about these things…

Part of it may be a legitimate disagreement with the actual concept, but a lot, maybe even most, of it is pure NUH UH ADVERSARY

Also: nobody's argued anything since October. Why post in this thread almost three quarters of a year after the last shot in the argument just to tell everyone to chill out?

[Laxamentum]

>I wonder why we argue about these things…

Part of it may be a legitimate disagreement with the actual concept, but a lot, maybe even most, of it is pure NUH UH ADVERSARY

Also: nobody's argued anything since October. Why post in this thread almost three quarters of a year after the last shot in the argument just to tell everyone to chill out?

I remember this thread... It's like dusting off our old Christmas photos.

[OverlordMikey]

Huh I think someone set me up... I got a PM about this thread on May 21st aka yesterday. I didn't check the date So I assumed it was more recent.. Odd....sorry.

[SHF]

There's the diary on the roof in the brookhaven hospital.
The diary seems to be written by mary, days before her release.
The context of said diary is very similar to the Full letter that is read by mary at the end of the game.
Its a good guess to assume that she stayed at brookhaven based on this alone.
What about when maria starts becoming sick, and resides in that particular room?
Guessing its where mary stayed, for a brief time.
And dont forget about when we experience the memory of mary being rolled down the corridors within brookhaven.
If she didnt stay there, there wouldnt be any reason to infer that she had.

[Mephisto]

There's the diary on the roof in the brookhaven hospital.
The diary seems to be written by mary, days before her release.

The diary had some "life sucks" commentary, like the line "I'm a bother either way". One of the patients from Brookhaven was a guy that tryed suicide in the past (3 times if I'm not wrong) for unknown reasons. The patient was Jack Davis. I think it was his diary.

Its a good guess to assume that she stayed at brookhaven based on this alone.

In my humble opinion: It's not.

What about when maria starts becoming sick, and resides in that particular room?
Guessing its where mary stayed, for a brief time.

Or maybe it was, you know, Maria's doing what she was suposed to do. . . Since she's kinda a "copy" from Mary. . .
Maria got trapped inside a cell in the Labyrinth, are you gonna tell me this was a cell that Mary stayed in, too?

And dont forget about when we experience the memory of mary being rolled down the corridors within brookhaven.

If it's not too much to ask: Can you show me a source or something? Because I have no idea what you're talkin' about.