Shepherd-Sunderland: What's In A Name?

James got a letter. From a dead person. Oh dear.

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King Crimson
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Post by King Crimson »

It's obvious that when we put this into such perspective that Eddie is obviously representitive of James: He's a killer, he denies that he's a killer, he's running away from his problems, uses murder to solve his problems, is a killer because of nurture (outside effects), etc. James eventually 'kills off' this part of his subconcious as he begins to retain memory, and as he begins to owe up to what happened.
James killed Mary for a very different reason than Eddie kills random people. James mourns for eddie when he dies and feels sorry for him. I couldnt see james killing random just because of the way they looks at him.
We never really know for sure if they did indeed have sex or not
it is obvious James was tortured by unsatisfied sexual desire through what we see in the game, especially in the form of monsters
James was tortured sexually because he couldnt have sex with her when she was sick because she is in the hospital. Keep in mind they have been married for some time. If she has only been sick for three years then it is doesnt make much sence for her to have gotten the disease before they met.
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Post by VIVIsect »

Drewfus wrote:I think it's possible that Mary was in the dormancy stage of syphilis, and was noninfectious as a result. She could have had it from before she met James.

For the sake of this analysis, though, I think it's safer to say she has some inexplicable fictional disease that is sexual in some fashion.
Here's an interesting tid bit:

"The name "syphilis" was coined by the Italian physician and poet Girolamo Fracastoro in his epic noted poem, written in Latin, entitled Syphilis sive morbus gallicus (Latin for "Syphilis or The French Disease") in 1530. The protagonist of the poem is a shepherd named Syphilus. Syphilus is presented as the first man to contract the disease."

Though I for one completely dismiss the idea that Mary could have died from a sexually transmitted disease, particularly Syphilis, being that it is easily treated with antibiotics ( "For early syphilis, one dose of penicillin is sufficient" ). It's rare that anyone living in America (or any civilized country) would die as a result of an infection.

EDIT*

Also, according to the Silent Hill timeline presented by Tom (which I think we all generally accept) Mary became ill in 1991 and passed away in 1994. That's 3 years. We can rule out AIDS/HIV as well as Hepatitis C. Generally those infected with either disease live longer than three years.
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Post by SuriKatta »

James killed Mary for a very different reason than Eddie kills random people. James mourns for eddie when he dies and feels sorry for him. I couldnt see james killing random just because of the way they looks at him.
I didn't say James WAS Eddie directly. I said that Eddie could be a representitive of James' subconcious... specifically the more negative aspect, if anything. That's different. What Eddie does is just a mirror of what James experienced/did. It's not direct. And even then, though James DOES feel guilt when he kills Mary and Eddie, it's on the fence as to why he killed Mary. Killing her because he wanted to be rid of her was a selfish reason.
James was tortured sexually because he couldnt have sex with her when she was sick because she is in the hospital. Keep in mind they have been married for some time. If she has only been sick for three years then it is doesnt make much sence for her to have gotten the disease before they met.
But we still don't know if they ever had sex. Period. We can only assume. (This is also retrospective to the rape/abuse situation, STD-related or not.)

The only thing we know for sure is that James didn't have sex with her when she was ill. And not neccesarily just because she was in the hospital.

Like I said, I still agree with Mary catching the disease that was historically from the town of Silent Hill. It's probably not an STD at all. I'm just theorizing as to how that part of Drewfus' theory could hold water.
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Post by Mis Krist. »

I really think it's terribly illogical to suggest that a married couple did not ever screw each other.
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Post by SuriKatta »

Unlikely. But not impossible.

I've met at least one couple that doesn't, pertaining to sexual reasons that are personal to them, of which I won't discuss here.
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Post by Mis Krist. »

Yeah, but your one allegorical evidence doesn't really change much of the fact that that's not average behavior. Therefore, while not impossible, it's really not something highly probable in the case of this fictional couple.
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Post by SuriKatta »

... Albeit, stranger things have happened when it comes to Silent Hill.

Attempting to birth a god from a little girl with psychic powers? Yeah. Totally average. Heh-heh.
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Post by Mis Krist. »

That has nothing to do with James and Mary's existent--or non-existent, in your view--sexual relationship. I don't see why you'd even bother to mention that, considering it has nothing to do with what either you or I said.

Clearly I was discussing the topic of average married couples' behavior. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
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Post by SuriKatta »

I'm just saying, that these games, while 'logical' in some retrospects, can be absolutely out-of-the norm and 'illogical'. You never can tell exactly what Konami was thinking, short of asking them. Sorry. I guess I didn't make that clear.

Personally, I think James and Mary had sex before she became ill. There really is no doubt in my mind that they did, albeit not enough to satisfy James, most likely. Even though the fact that James and Mary not having sex after marriage, especially, is illogical to an extent, it's still just a theory. Just like how Angela being James' sister is just a theory. Or that Angela is Alessa is just a theory. As I stated before, I'm simply showing how Drewfus' theory could fit into the storyline. It doesn't mean it's cannon. Relax a bit. It's only a game.
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Post by Mis Krist. »

I know it's just a game and I don't need to relax, considering I haven't approached it from anything but a countering standpoint to what you've said.

That about does it for me.
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Post by The Adversary »

>while 'logical' in some retrospects, can be absolutely out-of-the norm and 'illogical'.
Only to a certain extent. It can't be an argument used to counteract every theory, otherwise there's no point in even discussing the series--nor should it be used when discussing logical aspects of a story because, for the most part, the characters in the Silent Hill series or normal people, especially in Silent Hill 2; they don't have superpowers, nor are they capable of any magic or wizardry.
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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.
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Post by Droo »

VIVIsect wrote:
Also, according to the Silent Hill timeline presented by Tom (which I think we all generally accept) Mary became ill in 1991 and passed away in 1994. That's 3 years. We can rule out AIDS/HIV as well as Hepatitis C. Generally those infected with either disease live longer than three years.
Mary could have become infected with syphilis before she met James, and been in the latency stage by the time she met and married James. In the latency stage, syphilis is much less infectious, and it is theoretically possible that James would never have contracted it.

An early dose of penicilin would do the trick, unless Mary was so shamed by the early sexual experience that she never reported her symptoms and went untreated.

By 1991, she enters tertiary syphilis as the disease flares up again. Her body becomes covered in sores and she begins to show signs of emotional and mental collapse. At this stage, the disease is too far along for doctors to do anything to save her.

It's a long shot, but it is scientifically possible for Mary to have been infected with syphilis.
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Post by SuriKatta »

Only to a certain extent.
Oh, of course. That's why I used the words 'can be'.

My example might've been a little extreme, especially within the realm of SH2, but I was just getting the point across that 'stranger things have happened' when taking Silent Hill into consideration. Of course, the concoction of the logical and the illogical in these games is what makes them so interesting.
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
I mean, you got a guy believing he has an apartment room for a mother, a man who kills his wife and then suddenly forgets about it, a man adopting a little girl that is handed to him and goes into hiding because a mad cult is searching for her.
All of which are far-fetched, and illogical/unlikely. But not so much so that they couldn't possibly happen at all in reality.

So, yeah. 'Stranger things have happened when it comes to Silent Hill.' ;)
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Post by AuraTwilight »

...did you seriously just try and cite examples of abnormal psychology as groundwork to justify highly unlikely physical events?
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Post by King Crimson »

this is an insert from the silent hill 2 script

James: Mary's going to die...? You... you must be joking...

Doctor: I'm very sorry.

James: But you're a doctor. It's your job to heal people! How can you just
let her die!

Doctor: Please calm down. As her doctor, I promise I'll do what I can.
But... there's still no James: Mary's going to die...? You... you must be joking...


there is no treatment for her condition, as in there is no cure. Sorry Drew but there is effective treatment for syphlis.
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Post by Droo »

Not for tertiary syphilis, there isn't.
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Post by King Crimson »

in order for her to be sick with tertiary syphilis she would have had to been infected for ten eleven years proir. And shes clearly been sick for 3 years.
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Post by Droo »

She has been infected with syphilis since before James met her. Their entire relationship she has been in latency. Her tertiary syphilis flared up three years ago. She's been sick both for 3 years as well as for many, many years.
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Post by thesaurus_rex »

Thank you Drewfus for posting this...

Silent Hill 2 never ceases to amaze me. After reading theories about the game for more than 3 years, something like this comes along and keeps me thinking about this great story once more. Plus, its always nice to hear something with depth after playing Origins... :roll:
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Post by SuriKatta »

...did you seriously just try and cite examples of abnormal psychology as groundwork to justify highly unlikely physical events?
Try? I thought I did. ;)

Actually, only 2/3 of those examples were abnormal psychology. The third was an outside effect, albeit, I wouldn't call members of a cult psychologically stable.

Although, why wouldn't abnormal psych be related to unlikely physical events? These are examples of what's in-game, but they're really no stranger than stuff that happens in real life.

A good example would even be a man who was just recently convicted here for the murder of six women... and possibly 20 others (even though he told an undercover police officer he wanted to make it 'an even 50). He was a pig farmer, and he was witnessed to've hung the prostitutes on meat hooks while he slaughtered them in his slaughterhouse. Evidence basically says he stuffed the bodies into pigs and into waste barrels that were sent off to rendering plants and also fed to the pigs/ground up with pig meat to be fed to customers. They found heads, hands, and feet scattered around his farm. He said he would've gotten away with it, had he not been "sloppy".

Abnormal psychology can create all sorts of unlikely, strange, or disturbing instances... whether it's the psychology of an individual who has been abused, a serial killer, or something like PTSD... and Silent Hill feeds off of all sorts of insanitites and psychological disorders. So, yeah. I'd say it's justified.
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