Silent Hill preorder booklet translation

Have you seen Harry's daughter anywhere? Short, dark hair?

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Malzarre
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Re: Silent Hill preorder booklet translation

Post by Malzarre »

I had completely forgotten about the Dan Birlew thing. I guess I was thinking of the part in Silent Hill 3 where we see that video of Lisa from SH1, and afterwards Heather says something about Lisa being so heavenly to her in that Hellish hospital

I mean, there is the possibility that Heather's memories as Alessa aren't entirely correct

Had to look up metempsychosis, and found that It's another term for reincarnation. Where was it said Valtiel was preparing Lisa for metempsychosis/reincarnation?
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Re: Silent Hill preorder booklet translation

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>Where was it said Valtiel was preparing Lisa for metempsychosis/reincarnation?<
As I recall, it's from the SILENT HILL 3 Koshiki Guidebook. It, unfortunately, hasn't been translated for the public, like Silent Hill Chronicles has been, but it's out there. There are also similar guidebooks for SILENT HILL 2 and SILENT HILL 4: THE ROOM, which, again, haven't been translated/published. Definitely wish someone would, though. Kinda surprised it hasn't been a thing yet.
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Re: Silent Hill preorder booklet translation

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Ooh, got it. Maybe someday someone will translate it, same way this booklet was translated
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Re: Silent Hill preorder booklet translation

Post by The Adversary »

Malzarre wrote: 17 Nov 2023 Ooh, got it. Maybe someday someone will translate it, same way this booklet was translated
I’m considering buying copies of them and seeing if a friend wants to practice translating. Pretty sure they’d be happy to do it.

Also forgot to address the “heavenly” comment from Heather.

I almost consider this a sort of misrememberance on her part—idealizing something tragic that happened to her that she can’t fully grasp. While I usually don’t like to use much from later games as evidence for earlier ones, I think it’s important to do so when it explains previous unexplained instances. In this case, I use the oft-unliked version of SILENT HILL: ORIGINS’ Alessa.

Because, well . . . She. Is. Pissed.

And I think that can be used to explain Alessa’s—rightfully so—deep-seated hatred of basically everyone and everything—and why she wants to seal the town into the Abyss.

It’s not like Lisa was going to escape Alessa’s whole plan, anyway. Maybe the best thing for Lisa was to die.

Sometimes . . . dead is better.
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Re: Silent Hill preorder booklet translation

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The Adversary wrote: 16 Nov 2023
Whatever wrote: 16 Nov 2023 The pdf download link is dead. Can anyone helṕ me with that?
Yup.
Thank you kindly, Tom. Thanks a lot!
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Re: Silent Hill preorder booklet translation

Post by Malzarre »

I think it'd be worth it.

Funny how something that probably nearly everyone in the Fandom believed, may have all been a lie.

I'm going by memory on this

In SH0, Lisa hasn't become Alessa's nurse yet. So it would make sense that Lisa would also be in the way

I don't know when Lisa was put in charge of Alessa's care, and I'm hesitant to use any secondary material on the matter. For example, from what I've been able to tell about Cage of Cradle, Lisa was high most of the time and hallucinating

In the Play Novel, Alessa's entry about Lisa seems to be a fond one.

Of course there is something off about them, especially the latter

Therefore, going by the games alone, I think this is the situation

Silent Hill Origins - A seven year old Alessa is rightfully pissed off at everyone in the town, except maybe Travis. After gaining her powers back thanks to the reconstructed Flauros, I guess her next step was to burn down the entire town in one huge fiery tantrum

SH0 - SH1 - After splitting her soul in half, Alessa is placed under a spell that amplifies her pain. (At least I think this is what happens. I do remember it was used as a beckoning spell for the other half (Cheryl) to return)

For 7 years she languishes away in a hidden basement. No idea when Lisa was made to take care of Alessa. I also don't know if Alessa was ever awake to notice

On one hand, if she ever was, she might have appreciated Lisa for being someone who seemingly cared about her. On the other hand, I think as you mentioned earlier, Alessa might have resented Lisa for not being able to heal her

(Forgive me, I am paraphrasing)

As for Alessa's hatred, it's interesting, I think, how Alessa went from being an "infernalist" to seven years later becoming an "annihilationist". She went from wanting everyone to suffer (if her transformation of the whole town in SH0 as a whole is anything to go by) to just wanting to annihilate the entire town, everyone and herself included

You are right, Lisa was never going to escape death
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Re: Silent Hill preorder booklet translation

Post by Arsonist »

The Adversary wrote: 16 Nov 2023 That's fair. People have perpetually disliked my theories for a long time. :(
You can take comfort in knowing that every person posting about SH's timeline or doing a "SH history, explained" videos are straight up ripping you off 90% of the time. You did fantastic work, and created a contribution to the community that you should be proud of. Speaking of which, will you continue to add to your timeline with these new additions to the universe?
Anyway, as other have pointed out, Alessa is fond of Lisa. Even as Heather, she remembers her name and describes her as being "heavenly". Plus, given the secrecy of Alessa's continued existence, I doubt that she saw too many other staff members tending to her.
Origins take heavy inspiration from the movie, I wouldn't rely too much on it when it comes to Alessa's characterization. Especially because SH3 gives us her exact thought process.

"It would be better for "myself" to die. After all, it's nothing to be afraid of... That child... that demon... When I think of the endless pain it will bring when it is birthed... I decided that, instead of the suffering and cruelty I endured in that sick room... That I would like to bestow a more gentle and peaceful death on "myself". Why do "I" resist? I never thought of "myself" as such a fool..."

She's trying to save the world, there's no mention of revenge. And in SH1, she's actively avoiding conflict. When she can't teleport away, she's swatting Harry away like a bug instead of murdering him, which we know that she's capable of.
That said, even taking Origins into account, she doesn't really do anything malicious. Sure, she callously uses Travis, but it's to stop God from being born. Order members scatter in fear, but she doesn't go after them, she uses her power to create Cheryl. No one gets hurt.
I'm not saying that she's an angel. In many ways, she is her mother's daughter the same way Heather is her father's daughter. I don't think its a coincidence that Cheryl and Alessa were both seven years old when their "creators" decided to sacrifice them for the greater good. In my opinion, the mother and daughter are foils of each other. Alessa is at peace in letting (at least) three innocent people die if everyone else gets to live. Even though she's working against the Order and Dahlia, this is very much their line of thinking. And while Dahlia lies every time that she breathes, and is playing everybody like pawns, Alessa is just bulldozing through them with no explanation given. In my mind, both attitudes betray a skewed view that no one is to be trusted. And both are heavily reliant on magic to achieve their ends. In the end, Alessa gets to grow as a person. Earnestly summoning Harry for help, and giving them both a chance at happiness, no matter the risks. Because she learned she can trust others, or at least him. That the world doesn't have to be a bad, scary place. Dahlia remains stuck in her ways, and gets shot and fried as a result.
I guess that's why we're interpreting the events of the game differently. We view the catalyst character in different lights. I choose to ignore the smirking little shit from SHO to fit my narrative, and you don't trust Heather's memories to fit yours. So where you see a young girl going out of her way to make the town suffer, I see someone who is trying to minimize the damage, even if it means breaking a few eggs.

Anyway, sorry about the novel. I do hope your medical issues clear up soon.
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Re: Silent Hill preorder booklet translation

Post by Malzarre »

Tbf to those people, the newer ones are probably just ripping off other creators who ripped off Tommy. He's probably the most influential theorist in the fandom, so it doesn't surprise me

You do bring up a good point about Lisa being Alessa's primary care giver. If it were for just a couple of days or so, I can see Alessa not remembering her, but Lisa was her caretaker for years

Then there's a question about why Lisa stays in that room. I think it was said that if she left the room she would know the truth that she's dead, but why is she the only one who doesn't realize it for awhile?

My memory is fuzzy on this, but wasn't there a theory that Alessa was using Lisa as a means to distract Harry, so she could complete the Seal of Metatron?

As for the validity of the characterization of SH0's Alessa, I think one major thing needs to be addressed. Alessa is a seven year old girl, and one who has just been burned alive by her own mom. She's a seven year old girl with access to seemingly god like powers, it's easy to see her as a "smirking little shit" who wants to destroy everything in fire

(I wonder if there's something between that and Dahlia's earlier quote of "release him, and we will all burn in the fires of Hell!" In regards to the Flauros)

So, I don't see SH0's Alessa to be entirely out of character

As for Heather's memories, I don't know if I'd say they're entirely off. Yes, it's possible that had Claudia not found Heather, her memories of her past life probably wouldn't have come back. Yes, some of the stuff Heather finds in regards to her having been Alessa are from somewhat faulty sources.

But the further into Silent Hill she gets, the clearer her memories become. When she reaches Alessa's childhood room in the Otherworld, she has memories of Alessa and Claudia playing cards, and Claudia losing often. Heather hates Claudia, so there's no reason for her to romanticize this memory

Therefore, at the moment I'm reluctant to accept that Heather's memory of Lisa is entirely a misrememberance. I would be more willing to accept that the memory is clouded by nostalgia. Perhaps Heather is only remembering the good stuff about Lisa, and not the bad stuff

(Also not saying that Lisa abused Alessa, but as she was on drugs quite often, and if there was a way for Alessa to sense that, something would have been off to her I think)

Also, sorry for the novel as well
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Re: Silent Hill preorder booklet translation

Post by Arsonist »

Malzarre wrote: 20 Nov 2023 Then there's a question about why Lisa stays in that room. I think it was said that if she left the room she would know the truth that she's dead, but why is she the only one who doesn't realize it for awhile?

My memory is fuzzy on this, but wasn't there a theory that Alessa was using Lisa as a means to distract Harry, so she could complete the Seal of Metatron?
In my opinion, it's because Lisa doesn't actually have a parasite inside of her. I tend to think that the real Lisa Garland died before the events of the game, and the one we're seeing is a Maria-like manifestation. Possibly of Alessa's desire to be mothered and nurtured. But that's just my take. Maybe she is possessed, and Alessa is using her powers to keep her in the dark about it. Either out of affection, or as you stated, as a distraction.
There are theories abound. It's the one thing this fandom will never lack. I love it. From her being real and possessed, to her being a manifestation, a ghost, or a living embodiment of the Seal of Metatron for the hospital. The last one is a bit out there, and yet, there are hints: Alchemilla is the only location where we can't find the Seal. She thinks that she can't leave the hospital. And weirdly, out of all possible things, seeing the Seal is what triggers Heather's flashback of Lisa.
The simplest explanation of her not leaving is that she's scared. Hell, I'd probably lock myself in a room too.
Malzarre wrote: 20 Nov 2023 As for the validity of the characterization of SH0's Alessa, I think one major thing needs to be addressed. Alessa is a seven year old girl, and one who has just been burned alive by her own mom. She's a seven year old girl with access to seemingly god like powers, it's easy to see her as a "smirking little shit" who wants to destroy everything in fire

(I wonder if there's something between that and Dahlia's earlier quote of "release him, and we will all burn in the fires of Hell!" In regards to the Flauros)
I called her a smirking little shit, because she quite literally is sadistically smirking in the original PSP version of the game. She does this every time she causes Travis to pass out in pain. They went back on that in the PS2 version, and gave her a more indifferent look.
That said, whether she enjoys torturing Travis (for some reason) or not, she contains Flauros instead of releasing it. We can see the demon being bound once Travis defeats it. Alessa uses its power to create Cheryl, and everyone is free to go. So, again, even if I'm iffy on her characterization in that game, she doesn't go on a murder spree.
Malzarre wrote: 20 Nov 2023 Therefore, at the moment I'm reluctant to accept that Heather's memory of Lisa is entirely a misrememberance. I would be more willing to accept that the memory is clouded by nostalgia. Perhaps Heather is only remembering the good stuff about Lisa, and not the bad stuff

(Also not saying that Lisa abused Alessa, but as she was on drugs quite often, and if there was a way for Alessa to sense that, something would have been off to her I think)
Alessa/Heather only seeing good in Lisa is something I agree with. In the flashback of Alessa and Dahlia, we see how desperate Alessa is to be loved, and how she's deprived of it. Her forming an attachment to a woman who is halfway decent to her, especially while being isolated and imprisoned for seven years, makes total sense. Heather does note that Lisa "got weird towards the end", so she probably saw her spiraling without fully understanding what's going on.
Speaking of Alessa's abusers: I don't want to victim blame, and I admit that we don't know too much about what exactly Lisa was going through. But if someone can stomach to watch a literal child be kept entombed, isolated, and tortured for 7 years, and not do anything about it, I don't think that they get to be considered innocent. With that in mind, the realization of "I'm the same as them, I just hadn't noticed it before." could have more than one meaning behind it.
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Re: Silent Hill preorder booklet translation

Post by Malzarre »

There are theories abound. It's the one thing this fandom will never lack. I love it. From her being real and possessed, to her being a manifestation, a ghost, or a living embodiment of the Seal of Metatron for the hospital. The last one is a bit out there, and yet, there are hints: Alchemilla is the only location where we can't find the Seal. She thinks that she can't leave the hospital. And weirdly, out of all possible things, seeing the Seal is what triggers Heather's flashback of Lisa.
Wait, I think that might have been it. Not that Lisa was a distraction, but that she was a living embodiment of the Seal of Metatron. Though I guess both of them could easily work.

(There's a lot of theories I completely forgot about)
The simplest explanation of her not leaving is that she's scared. Hell, I'd probably lock myself in a room too.
Good point
I called her a smirking little shit, because she quite literally is sadistically smirking in the original PSP version of the game. She does this every time she causes Travis to pass out in pain. They went back on that in the PS2 version, and gave her a more indifferent look.
Okay, yeah. I had forgotten about that, and it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense
That said, whether she enjoys torturing Travis (for some reason) or not, she contains Flauros instead of releasing it. We can see the demon being bound once Travis defeats it. Alessa uses its power to create Cheryl, and everyone is free to go. So, again, even if I'm iffy on her characterization in that game, she doesn't go on a murder spree.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it wasn't the creators intentions to make Alessa come off as some sort of sadistic child who loved torturing Travis, but in their attempts to have her emote without speaking, they screwed up

By the way, I thought the demon contained in the Flauros was supposed to help Alessa focus and amplify her own powers, and that it was Alessa using her amplified powers to create Cheryl?
Speaking of Alessa's abusers: I don't want to victim blame, and I admit that we don't know too much about what exactly Lisa was going through. But if someone can stomach to watch a literal child be kept entombed, isolated, and tortured for 7 years, and not do anything about it, I don't think that they get to be considered innocent. With that in mind, the realization of "I'm the same as them, I just hadn't noticed it before." could have more than one meaning behind it.
Unfortunately, given her history of drug abuse, this would add to her being the perfect candidate to watch and take care of Alessa. I imagine if she ever did threaten to go to the police, Dr Kaufmann could have pulled the whole "You're a drug addict. Who's going to believe you?"

Something I am now confused about is that Lisa says nobody is allowed in the basement, and at first she mentions that Dahlia's daughter died, but we eventually see evidence that she did take care of Alessa. So, did she forget about all that after she died?
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