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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Angela looking at something in the flaming stairs.

Missing since: 01 Mar 2008
Notes left: 19
Last seen at: Sweden
When Angela talks to James in the flaming stars, did any of you notice what se was looking at first?
It's like a human behind a sheet, you can totally see the outline (?).
You can cind of see what it represents, just wondering if any of you notices it.
Sorry if it has already been posted ^^'



EDIT; The sheet has a big bloody stain between its legs too.

_________________
Never forgive me, never forget me.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 29 Mar 2006
Notes left: 761
Last seen at: Alternate Madison, WI
Maybe it's her dad's body. I don't think I've seen any other posts about this, so I'm sure you're safe.

_________________
Are you still following me? Do I have to scream? ~Heather


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 04 Nov 2008
Notes left: 5
Last seen at: Saturn
I Think They've Had Topics On This Before But I Can't Remember. I Think It Has Some Kind Of Representation Of Angela's Feelings.


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Hope House Careworker
 Post subject:

Missing since: 28 Feb 2006
Notes left: 731
Last seen at: Australia
http://z-o-g.org/gallery2/silenthill/sh ... 9.jpg.html
http://z-o-g.org/gallery2/silenthill/sh ... 7.jpg.html
http://z-o-g.org/gallery2/silenthill/sh ... 7.jpg.html

Looks what they were going for with 'Abstract Daddy', figure under a sheet. Though separated since there are now two of them on separate walls, one for her and her father? Foreshadowing because she is about to share his fate.

_________________
"The Body Is Cold?"


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Moderator
 Post subject:

Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
Notes left: 11979
Last seen at: Nova Scotia, Canada
It's a female figure under a bedsheet with blood around her vaginal area. It's a visual manifestation of Angela's rape.

_________________
"I dreamt last night I saw you
A single spark explosion negotiating with the dead
By the bright lights in some ICU on my chest you put your head
and said "There you are.
There you are.
There's my heart..."


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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Missing since: 29 Mar 2006
Notes left: 761
Last seen at: Alternate Madison, WI
I can see that now, thanks to those screen caps.

_________________
Are you still following me? Do I have to scream? ~Heather


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 04 Nov 2008
Notes left: 5
Last seen at: Saturn
Ha Moderators To The Rescue :3


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
>It's a visual manifestation of Angela's rape.
There's nothing to confirm that she was raped.

_________________
This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject:

Missing since: 24 Jun 2007
Notes left: 2121
MMY wrote:
>It's a visual manifestation of Angela's rape.
There's nothing to confirm that she was raped.


... but sexual assault of some kind is heavily implied.

_________________
no longer active. thanks for the memories.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
I disagree.

I'm having a less civil discussion at another Silent Hill forum, and there's no explicit evidence of Angela being sexually abused. Physically abused, yes.

SILENT HILL 2 SPOILERS

The line of dialogue that leads people to believe she was raped—"Or you could just force me"—isn't in the Japanese script, and the appearance of the Ideal Father, to me and others, doesn't depict a person being raped, but rather a person being attacked—as in Angela killing her father, or James killing Mary.

The fact that the creature's name is Ideal Father seems to be more indicative of it representing Angela killing Thomas. After all: Why would Angela's "ideal father" be one that is attacking her? Wouldn't it make more sense for her ideal father—one that frequently "beat [her] up"—to be a dead father?

_________________
This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 20 Jul 2005
Notes left: 3898
I don't think people solely based the speculation that Angela was raped on the script, but rather the visual symbolisms.
Subjective, really. I myself would go with Crucifix that the sexual abuse was implied.

_________________
QUICKLINKS | SH1 |SH2 |SH3 | SH4 |SH:H | SH:O |SHMovie |SHGeneral |FAQs




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Moderator
 Post subject:

Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
Notes left: 11979
Last seen at: Nova Scotia, Canada
The Abstract Daddy shows two figures reclining on a bedframe. Need I remind you what your gospel Chronicles say about the creature?

Quote:
"Ideal father". On top of its bed-like form are two covered reclining figures. A symbol of Angela's past.


The sexual imagery is undeniable. They do everything short of coming out and saying "ANGELA WAS RAPED", and I think this is more out of a concern for good taste than anything else. Also note the fact that it attacks by jumping up on and trying to envelop you. It's a very intimate, invasive method of attack. Again, the sexual abuse imagery is obvious.

Also, Angela has all the mannerisms of a sexually abused child. She is mostly subservient, easily startled, and prone to outbursts of sudden hostility. There are enough context clues in the game to make me confident in my assertion that she is a rape victim, and the figure on the wall in this scene only serves to further suggest it.

_________________
"I dreamt last night I saw you
A single spark explosion negotiating with the dead
By the bright lights in some ICU on my chest you put your head
and said "There you are.
There you are.
There's my heart..."


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject:

Missing since: 24 Jun 2007
Notes left: 2121
MMY wrote:
After all: Why would Angela's "ideal father" be one that is attacking her?


"ideal father" could simply be an ironic name, considering the fact that he obviously did something to her. or it could imply the way that angela views him, despite whatever he did to her - victims of abuse often have mixed feelings about their attackers.


MMY wrote:
Ideal Father, to me and others, doesn't depict a person being raped, but rather a person being attacked—as in Angela killing her father, or James killing Mary.


i don't see it, personally. the figure on top is larger, clearly muscular and dominating, as opposed to the one underneath.

_________________
no longer active. thanks for the memories.


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Hope House Careworker
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Missing since: 16 Sep 2006
Notes left: 629
Last seen at: Seattle, WA
Not to mention the room with that Abstract Daddy boss fight. I'll have to disagree with you MMY on that one.


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My Bestsellers Clerk
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Missing since: 24 Oct 2008
Notes left: 439
Learn something new in this forum every day. As always, SH2 is a masterpiece.


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Hope House Careworker
 Post subject:

Missing since: 28 Feb 2006
Notes left: 731
Last seen at: Australia
crucifix wrote:
i don't see it, personally. the figure on top is larger, clearly muscular and dominating, as opposed to the one underneath.
Bloody hell I need to pay closer attention to things, all I remember is a blob :P

_________________
"The Body Is Cold?"


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Moderator
 Post subject:

Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
Notes left: 11979
Last seen at: Nova Scotia, Canada
Image

_________________
"I dreamt last night I saw you
A single spark explosion negotiating with the dead
By the bright lights in some ICU on my chest you put your head
and said "There you are.
There you are.
There's my heart..."


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Feb 2004
Notes left: 3094
Last seen at: Deep Inside
I never noticed that before

_________________
Image
It Doesn't Matter Who I am, I'm Here For You James.....See, I'm Real


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
>Need I remind you what your gospel Chronicles say about the creature?
What does Lost Memories: Silent Hill Chronicle say to disprove what I've suggested?

>They do everything short of coming out and saying "ANGELA WAS RAPED"
Again, I disagree, otherwise this discussion wouldn't be happening.

>Angela has all the mannerisms of a sexually abused child.
Or a physically abused child.

>"ideal father" could simply be an ironic name
None of the other names are used sarcastically or ironically. Why would this be any different?

>the figure on top is larger, clearly muscular and dominating
You can't even see a figure on the bottom—how can you say it's not more muscular? Additionally, of course the "person" on the top would be dominating—it's responsible for killing the other. You don't get much more dominating than that.

Instead of telling me what I already know from playing the game—that I disagree w/—how about someone disprove what I've suggested w/ something more than "Well, it's strongly implied in the game" or "I have no doubt I'm right"? I understand that you believe Angela was raped, but the common argument against my suggestion that she wasn't is that a) the name Ideal Father was meant to be sarcastic—when it wasn't—and b) the opponents "just know" that she was raped (neither of which is proof).

And, still, no one has answered my question: Why would Angela's "ideal father" be one that is attacking her?

_________________
This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject:

Missing since: 24 Jun 2007
Notes left: 2121
MMY wrote:
None of the other names are used sarcastically or ironically. Why would this be any different?


because of the reasons i listed...

anyway, you're bringing up a good counter-viewpoint. but if she wasn't sexually abused, then what does the figure under the sheet represent? i don't see how you could point that to mere physical abuse, what with the blood where it is and the fact that it looks like a bed - much like the monster's design.

_________________
no longer active. thanks for the memories.


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