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Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject: god
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Oct 2003
Notes left: 182
Last seen at: The Land of Ooo
So, in each game there is some form of god. And I have some questions about all of them really.

In each game the god takes the form of what the one conjuring it believes it to be, correct? So wouldn't that make it the same being? Or, at least the same "shape-shifting" god? But, I feel it isn't. That it's a coincidence that each one takes the form of what the, in very loose terms here, "user" believes it to be. I feel it isn't because not once in any game do they speak of the second, third, or fourth re-coming of the same god but yet talking about it as if it were a new one.

Which brings me to my next question. Shouldn't the SH1 and SH3 gods actually be the same considering the linking between the two?

And what about SH2, where was the god in that game? Is it Maria, or the demon you fight at the end. Since, well, Maria does come from James' mind that makes me think that she was a manifestation of god perhaps.

Please can someone clarify this for me, since I've been debating this in my mind for a few days now?


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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God is not present in Silent Hill 2.

The Incubus is mentioned in Silent Hill 3, and The Order knows of its birth. It, of course, died. The god in Silent Hill 3 is technically the same god, though not identical. It's always the same god. Vincent discusses this in the Chapel's library: It's not unusual for people to worship the same god but have disparate beliefs. Catholicism & Christianity, for example: Same god, different belief-system.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 05 Oct 2003
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Thank you.

That really helped a lot. I'm just surprised you understood all my thoughts in a jumbled mess like that. But thank you.

And what about Silent Hill 4? I read that during the 21 Sacraments ending that the room is god then. So, is this seperate all together, or does something in the previous games link this god to that of the previous?


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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It's the same God, but brought to life with the 21 Sacraments. God's basically reincarnating throughout the games.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 29 May 2006
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Last seen at: Mormons HQ
Dream_Demon wrote:
And what about Silent Hill 4? I read that during the 21 Sacraments ending that the room is god then. So, is this seperate all together, or does something in the previous games link this god to that of the previous?


Seems crazy but you may say so. Walter as a kid was fooled/confused by cult members(or shuld I say member > Dahlia) that thru 21 sacraments ritual he can meet again with his mother. In fact this ritual wasn't any diffrent from any other in cults teachings - purpose was conjuring evil in pure form.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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>I read that during the 21 Sacraments ending that the room is god then.
Theoretically, yes.

>does something in the previous games link this god to that of the previous?
As AuraTwilight said, they're all the same god, believed in by the same religious group, The Order. They have numerous sects, with numerous beliefs & varying methods in how to "birth" god, but, ultimately, they're all the same god, despite some sects' opposition to the others.

>Walter as a kid was fooled/confused by cult members(or shuld I say member > Dahlia)
No he wasn't. There's a lot of confusion caused by Dahlia's name being mentioned, but she had no direct influence on Walter's decision.

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This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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and as JuriDawn so elegantly put it, Dahlia was basically going "Heheh. Dude, I'm gonna make this kid think his mom is a room."

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 29 May 2006
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St. Thomas wrote:
>Walter as a kid was fooled/confused by cult members(or shuld I say member > Dahlia)
No he wasn't. There's a lot of confusion caused by Dahlia's name being mentioned, but she had no direct influence on Walter's decision.


Well since you mentioned..
He was. You can only come to this thx to Eileen. Lemme write that how it goes
"October 16th, Some important people came today. One of them was a lady named Dahlia"

"October 17th, the important lady told me my mother was asleep in Ashfield. I have a mother too. I'm so happy. I wanna see my mother. Where is Ashfield anyway"

"October 21st, Sunday is the day I leave the cell to read the book. I read very well today. If I can do a good job reading the 21 Sacraments for the Descent of Holy Mother, I can meet my mother. The important lady told me that. But tomorrow I'm going to the round cell again."

There was 2 more but heck that. As you see her influence was big time on him. Those are Walters words anyway


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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 06 Apr 2007
Notes left: 565
Last seen at: silent hill funeral home
i believe the gods were manifesations of the mind like the pyramid head was to james. it makes sense alittle bit
prove me wrong by stating theories that could hinder this belief

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HARK, do you not hear the voices,
they are only audible if you listen first


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SHH Cult Subscriber
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Missing since: 26 Oct 2006
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i believe the gods were manifesations of the mind like the pyramid head was to james. it makes sense alittle

No, it doesn't really. Characters throughout 3 of the 4 games would not be seeking to give life to the god if it were just an intangible conjuration.


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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 06 Apr 2007
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Last seen at: silent hill funeral home
oh, i played 3 not 4 yet
th 3rd one is that heather was in part connected to alessa and the cult thing. so it could be right there but i dont know

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HARK, do you not hear the voices,
they are only audible if you listen first


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 25 Apr 2006
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Hmm! I'm not really going to buy the whole "The God is Evil" thing. Since everytime they tried to bring it into the world it usually ends up perverted by the person doing the conjuring.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Quote:
No, it doesn't really. Characters throughout 3 of the 4 games would not be seeking to give life to the god if it were just an intangible conjuration.


Except that's exactly what it is. Why else can it only exist in the Otherworld? It's just a super powerful monster, really.

Quote:
Hmm! I'm not really going to buy the whole "The God is Evil" thing. Since everytime they tried to bring it into the world it usually ends up perverted by the person doing the conjuring.


Yes, because killing all of humanity is such a noble, loving goal.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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SHH Cult Subscriber
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Missing since: 26 Oct 2006
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Hmm! I'm not really going to buy the whole "The God is Evil" thing. Since everytime they tried to bring it into the world it usually ends up perverted by the person doing the conjuring.


Which is the same excuse used by people who are eager for the Christian Apocalypse, which would result in the death of, well, pretty much everyone, or for those who seek to say that terrorism has no link to Islam... such things aren't fun and games. In the Silent Hill universe, if the god was allowed to be born, pretty much all 6.5 billion people on the planet would be killed.

Not intending to drag us into a religious debate, by the way. Just seeking to use real-world allegories to make it easier to understand.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 01 Sep 2003
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Last seen at: Wisconsin
I don't think the God is an actual creature in itself, I think it is just a super powerful monster, like AuraTwilight said. The Cult has an idea of a God that they can make real due to the suggestable nature of reality in Silent Hill, but they need a powerful psychic in order to make it real. That's why Alessa was the mother of god, she was actually supposed to birth God from nothingness.

James creation of Maria is a similar process, but because James isn't a psychic Maria isn't powerfull enough to destroy the world. She's just powerful enough to attack James with tentacles and moths.


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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 06 Apr 2007
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Last seen at: silent hill funeral home
mrow, maria was there to make james relive and question himself.
it stunned him thats what silent hill does. that has to do with the subconscoius mind
this god stuff seems more real cause even harry could see it. he didnt have anything to do with it being seen in his mind becuase everyone saw that same thing, i believe
the order are crazed power needy people. whatever power there is, they will create their god in any manner.
dont they want destruction of mankind anywany? so what better way thahn making a maniacal demon thing?

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HARK, do you not hear the voices,
they are only audible if you listen first


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
mrow, maria was there to make james relive and question himself.


Mrow never contested that.

Quote:
it stunned him thats what silent hill does. that has to do with the subconscoius mind
this god stuff seems more real cause even harry could see it.


Only because Harry was pulled into Alessa's version of Otherworld. The God is no real than anything else in Silent Hill.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


Last edited by AuraTwilight on 19 Apr 2007, edited 1 time in total.

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 01 Sep 2003
Notes left: 199
Last seen at: Wisconsin
Yes, Maria's purpose is different then Gods because they were created by different people. Maria and Gods functions are different, but what they are is the same. They just differ in power level.

Quote:
Only because Harry was pulled into Alessa's version of Otherworld. The God is no real than anything else in Silent Hill.


Hmm, it might be more correct to say that the God is no less real then anything else in Silent Hill. The stuff in Silent Hill might be elements of dreams and stuff given form, created from nothing, but they can have real effects. Maria was created by James, a normal if emotionally troubled man, so it makes sense that only he could see her. The God, on the other hand, was created by a powerful psychic, so it could probably have done a lot more to the real world if it had a chance to be fully conjured into existance.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Well, I'm pretty sure the idea wasn't that the God needed a psychic to be born (though it certainly helped), but the fact that the God's existence was being supported by a whole group of people.

Maria is a Thoughtform: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_form

The God is an Egregore: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egregore

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 01 Sep 2003
Notes left: 199
Last seen at: Wisconsin
Interesting stuff. I forgot to take into account that a whole group of people besides Alessa have an idea of a God. I just thought that Alessa being super powerful is what caused the God to be different then other Silent Hill monsters, but the idea that a whole group of people are involved in it's creations might be what causes it to be so powerful.


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