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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Metatron & Samael

Missing since: 10 Dec 2005
Notes left: 35
Just who are they and the roles they represent? I know we are dealing with angels here and they seem completely opposite (although Dhalia seemed to work both sides of the coin).

Throughout the course of the games I had always wondered if the essence of Metatron & Samael lingered on, keeping check on our heroes, and acting as balancing agents between good and evil that exist in the town. Any thoughts or insights are appreciated.

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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
Neither of them exist as anything but names.

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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 27 Oct 2003
Notes left: 1227
Last seen at: Everywhere {UK}
Samael and Metatron are both made up from influences brought over by the cult. Metatron the (agent of god) is Valtiel.

The seal of metatron was called the 'mark of samael' by Dahila, but that was a trick to send harry to stop Alessa from running away from Dahila. Samael isent real in the cult, but it was what Dahila belived in god, the 'demon spreading those wings' can be callled samael. The Incubus/Samael is what Dahila thought about god.


Oh yeah, i would like to add also quoted from Translated Memories

The Seal Of Metatron: According to the Kabbalah (jewish mystisism), the angels Metatron and Samael originaly shared the same existance.

^That is not to tell you about Kabalah, it's got something BIG to do with the whole story of Silent Hill.

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Time is a skill, thats why you have to make the best moments last. Allow me to start by kicking you in the throat while masterbating to the sound of your own extinction.


Last edited by SAQOA on 20 Dec 2005, edited 1 time in total.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 10 Dec 2005
Notes left: 35
Interesting..so if Valtiel (agent of god) is indeed Metatron, does he serve the same God being summoned by the Cultists? I know Alessa was creating seals of Metatron to keep Samael (or Dhalia's idea of God) from fruition. Maybe I'm just looking at the big picture wrong but it seems he would be working against the best interests of God. Or atleast a countering force opposed. (These games sure confuse me sometimes lol).

Another interesting tid bit, it seems the Flauros item was also named after a major demon, in the Goetia, the Lesser Keys of Solomon.

http://www.deliriumsrealm.com/delirium/ ... haures.asp

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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 27 Oct 2003
Notes left: 1227
Last seen at: Everywhere {UK}
Valtiel grants the wishes of people, he is the magican, a trickser. He is the highest angel to the god, Valtiel partly takes god's form, or the otherway around.

'Metatron' is what part of the cult named the angel Valtiel, because Valtiel shows similar ethics as the Metatron from Christianity does; Maybe because the cult were hopeing he would? I dont know.

All the infomation is in Sh3, you just have to realise that the 'god' is not special, God is what Valtiel makes out of Alessa. Not to physhically change a world, but to physhically change a person. God later became a seperate being, born from ideas and wishes, but in the begining before the cult came, i'l bet there was only Valtiel.

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 Post subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samael
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metatron


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 20 Dec 2005
Notes left: 221
Last seen at: Heaven's Night
Heres some info I found on these two Gods of SH.

Sam(m)ael:

-a combination of "sam" meaning poison and "el" meaning angel. Rabbinic scripture has depicted Samael as the chief of Satans and the angel of death. In the Secrets of Enoch (Enoch II) he has been regarded both as evil and good; as one of the greatest and as one of the foulest spirits operating in Heaven, on earth, and in Hell.

"that great serpent with 12 wings that draws after him, in his fall, the solar system." [Cf. Revelation 12.) In the Sayings of Rabb Eliezer, Samael is charged with being the one (in the guise of a serpent) who tempted Eve, seduced her, and became by her the father of Cain.

Samael is the dark angel who wrestled with Jacob at Peniel, although Michael, Uriel, Metatron, and others have been identified as this antagonist. Samael is also equated with the satan (i.e. the adversary) who tempted David to number Isarael [Rf. I Chronicles 21]. In Charles, The Ascension of Isaiah IV, 7, occurs this passage:"And we ascended to the firmament, I and he, and there I saw Samael and his hosts, and there was great fighting therein and the angels of Satan were envying one another." It is clear from this that Sammael and Satan are interchangeable.

There is much confusion by some gamers whether or not the Silent Hill cult actually worship Sammael, as it's only mentioned significantly in SH1.

There appear to be some discrepancies between the cult's focal worship of Sammael in Silent Hill 1 and that of Claudia's view of the cult and its 'God'.

The advantage to continuing a storyline is that the origins of the first can be explored in greater depth and complexity. It must be remembered however, that Konami could not fully depict nor describe what are effectively themes of 'Satanism' in Silent Hill 1. To combat this in Silent Hill 3, the origins of the God become more ambigious and Christianised.


Metatron:

Some scriptures base him as the greatest of all heavenly hierarchs, the 1st of the 10 archangels of the Briatic world. He has been called king of angels, prince of the divine face or presence, Chancellor of Heaven, angel of the covenant. He has been scribed as being in higher authority than Gabriel or Michael.

Metatron's power is to battle the darkness, which contains the angels power much like Cheryl and Alessa contain Samaels' soul and power.

Metatron's presence will forever be in the town like Samael, both light and dark powers battling each other into a stalemate for submission.

The main protagonist is a sense, becomes an agent of Metatron, physically entering the dark Otherworld of Samael and defeating the evil aberrations. Once this is accomplished (a boss battle normally, like the Split-Worm in SH3), the protagonist is returned to the misty realm of reality (where Metatron has greater influence) by Metatron's power.

Metatron's true power and influence in the SH games still remains a mystery...

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Moderator
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Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
Notes left: 11052
Last seen at: In the anals of forum history
Your description of the 'gods' is a longtime misconception that honestly was clarified years ago.

Samael, for starters, is not a god that the Order worships. In fact, no one ever even claims he is. In the entire series, you hear Samael mentioned exactly twice, described both times by Dahlia as the 'demon in child form' that is laying its Mark all over town. The "Mark of Samael" she refers to is the triangular symbol you first see in the school, and then dozens of times later. When you meet Dahlia, she gives you the Flauros, which will allow you to counteract this "darkness".

The thing is, Dahlia's lying to you.

The 'demon in child's form' that we see and finally neutralize in the Amusement Park is not Samael at all, it's Alessa, her own daughter. Dahlia admits as much at the end of the game, when she displays surprise that Alessa had been using the "talisman of Metatron". As is later confirmed in SH3, the symbol of the Seal of Metatron is identical to that which Dahlia told us was the "Mark of Samael".

When we see this mark appear everywhere, it's not the work of Samael trying to birth itself. It's Alessa, laying this mark down to destroy God that resides within her (taking the town out in the process). The Seal of Metatron is powerful enough to do this while God is still weak and unformed, so SH3 tells us.

What it basically boils down to is that Samael is a well-known name commonly associated with devilry and Satanism to many people. Dahlia uses this name to spur Harry on... maybe dropping Satan's name itself is a little too over-the-top. Either way, there is no Samael and never was, and Samael certainly is not the God that the Order worships.

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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 10 Dec 2005
Notes left: 35
So basically 'Samael' was a deception by Dhalia to urge Harry to go kick some "evil ass" and find Alessa. And really has no further place in the stories?
And what of Metatron? If this is indeed Valtiel, as some have claimed, then why is his seals/talismans , etc., always seem to have a countering affect to the God which he seems to serve. Is he simply neutral? Fill me in if I'm missing anything.

Also keep in mind I'm not basing the Samael/Metatron discussion from a Judeo-Christian standpoint but how they exist within the dynamics of the game.

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Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
Notes left: 11052
Last seen at: In the anals of forum history
anamelessone wrote:
So basically 'Samael' was a deception by Dhalia to urge Harry to go kick some "evil ass" and find Alessa. And really has no further place in the stories?


Precisely. His name is invoked as a galvanizing measure, nothing more. You'll note that the name Samael appears only twice in the entire series, and never again.
Quote:
And what of Metatron? If this is indeed Valtiel, as some have claimed, then why is his seals/talismans , etc., always seem to have a countering affect to the God which he seems to serve. Is he simply neutral? Fill me in if I'm missing anything.


I don't know if Metatron is really Valtiel or not. I guess it makes some kind of sense given the role of Metatron to the Judeo-Christian God... the roles aren't identical but similar in some ways.

However, the Seal of Metatron is completely neutral in nature, and might also be a misnomer also. The Seal of Metatron's real name is the Virun VII Crest, and the text in SH3 that outlines this Crest tells us that it is very powerful and difficult to use, and also that it's completely neutral in its nature... it does whatever the caster wishes for it to do.

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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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Last seen at: #lfk
>i'l bet there was only Valtiel.
Not according to the Order. God created beings: Xuchilbara & Lobsel Vith. Valtiel--Xuchilbara, that is--didn't come first.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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 Post subject:

Although I agree that Samael is just a name used by Dahlia.

Random theory:

Lobsil Vith and Xuchilbara are Samael and Metatron. They are the two balancing beings, and depending on your heart, you can appeal to either one...or easier to say, it creates a duality in the town. The overlapping themes of twins or splits is common in SH, perhaps shared by the two entities.

Represented by Valtiel's deed of rebirth is his entity of destruction, his counterpart, the energy of the Red Pyramid Thing....

...I know, it's a load.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
Metatron doesn't exist as anything but as a name given to the Virun VII Crest--named as such because of its great power. It's the exact same as the name Samael: it isn't an entity, it is only a name.

From: http://www.silenthillforum.com/viewtopi ... 9&start=45

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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