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 Post subject: Castlevania producer thinks SH series should be rebooted
     
         
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Castlevania producer Dave Cox pointed out Silent Hill as being an "obvious" candidate for a reboot. I really don't agree with that at all, especially since the series is still active. What do you guys think?

Quote:
I guess Silent Hill would be the obvious one. Sometimes a series needs a little break. Sometimes it needs to have fresh eyes, a new team to come in and bring their creative vision to it. Perhaps, Silent Hill will be a project Konami that can bring back,” Cox told Siliconera. “It’s not something that I would be particularly interested in doing myself. I’m more of an old school guy. I grew up with Castlevania and Contra is what made want to work at Konami at the end of the day. They are my passions. I’d like to see Konami do some new stuff, bring something new to the table. I think next generation offers great opportunities to do new things.


Source: http://bloody-disgusting.com/news/32484 ... ll-reboot/


Last edited by JKristine35 on 17 Aug 2013, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania producer wants to reboot the SH series
     
         
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I don't really understand what he means by rebooting the series, when it's already been passed to several totally different teams since 4, who have all more-or-less tried their own thing anyway. I think Downpour was as close to a 'reboot' as you could really get with the series by omitting any heavy reliance on The Order, or nurses. I mean, I guess you could go the Shattered Memories route with ice instead of fire and no fighting, but even that I wouldn't really consider a reboot.


Edit, thanks for fixing that :)

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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania producer wants to reboot the SH series

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No, it doesn't. Fucking tired of Harry and Cheryl bullshit.
The first game was cool and Shattered Memories' re-imagining was beyond awesome but enough, let the man rest in peace.

If they're out of ideas (yeah right) and want to shift the responsiblity to a new team then just hire the old teams that worked on the previous games for fuck's sake (Double Helix, Climax and Vatra) and get this over with. Isn't it obvious that a game made by all three would sell more? That's what they want, right? Money? Obviously.


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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania producer thinks SH series should be rebooted
     
         
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I wouldn't mind seeing a reboot. One of the biggest problems I have with the series is that the mythology and backstory have become more important than anything in any individual game, and it's become too convoluted and appears too frequently. There doesn't seem like much left in this tank. My favorite Silent Hill of the last twelve years ignored all of the bloated and increasingly dull canon and did something new. Let's have some more of that.

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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania producer thinks SH series should be rebooted
     
         
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I'm tired of reboots in general. So nah.

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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania producer thinks SH series should be rebooted
     
         
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A reboot sounds refreshing. But I feel speaking of rebooting Silent Hill isn't as drastic as it is for other franchises, given the nature of each game being so individual.

As silly as it sounds, a reboot for Silent Hill pretty much just needs to be a really high-quality title, polished & supported, free of the bloated mythology.

But all-in-all, I have no real idea as to where I think SH should go next. Whatever comes next needs to be really surprising (more than Shattered Memories).

They should also refocus on the horror; that raw nightmarish vibe from SH1 (not rust, blood, fire etc. but you know, just TERRIFYING). I feel like the horror has taken a back seat for a long time now in SH... it's certainly present, just not as prevalent.

I'm scatter-brained, sorry. I guess I'm in support of a reboot. Just not the conventional idea of a reboot. So basically just another entry... super-good entry...
Yeah, I don't know what should come next for this series.


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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania producer thinks SH series should be rebooted
     
         
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Ryantology wrote:
One of the biggest problems I have with the series is that the mythology and backstory have become more important than anything in any individual game, and it's become too convoluted and appears too frequently.

A couple of times, I've referred to the series as becoming increasingly "inbred." This is basically what I mean, a downward self-referential spiral. That it exists is, in itself, a sign of decline: The inability of a series to regenerate and attract new fans.

If new entries were capable of attracting a healthy number of new fans, then this self-referential "curling inward" would be unnecessary, even avoided (because it'd put a crimp on the pipeline of new fans by raising the barrier of entry). Eventually, new installments become pastiches of older installments, filled with references that can only be fully understood by fans (and have no real meaning to non-fans).

As a counterexample, I'd like to point to Persona 3 and Persona 4, which collectively have grown the Persona audience and thus have no need to rely on references to the PlayStation 1 games. Indeed, they have largely avoided self-references to the vocal (and, it's worth noting, vocally minority) chagrin of fans of the earlier games.

This is, of course, relatively speaking.


I don't think a reboot would, by virtue of itself, solve this "inbreeding" problem. After all, you could say it's the general predilection of hardcore fans across all properties and media to adore inbred self-reference (and, indeed, confuse context-less references for "cleverness"). I'll take a moment to point toward the J.J. Abrams Star Trek movies, which are ostensibly for general audiences but contain scripts that are half to 75% made of modified lines cribbed from past Star Trek productions... as such, even though they do well enough as empty spectacle, I've yet to see them create any new fans.

Though, really, it's difficult to suggest that Silent Hill abandon self-reference in future titles. For one, self-referential mythology is one of the means by which remaining fans are kept in the fold. For another, the series has become (in my opinion) overlong and top-heavy, making "curling inward" very difficult to avoid in a natural manner.

From here on out are some more general statements of my interpretation of why the series worked and why it no longer works, for which nobody in particular is to blame:

[Reveal] Spoiler:
I think I've mentioned several times before that I think Silent Hill really only had two installments in it. Though I say that, please don't lump me in with the angry reactionaries who follow Twin Perfect.

My reasoning is thus: Silent Hill is a concept that centers on the overturning of the familiar to establish a vague and pervasive sense of discomfort. The first game overturned the bucolic small town, and the second game overturned everything comfortable and "sacred" in the first game (namely the protagonist; the town, itself, had in many ways become the "bedrock of familiarity" in the second game).

After overturning the small town and then overturning the player-as-agent, there was really nowhere left to go, in those terms. So, Silent Hill became increasingly reliant on a mythology that was originally crafted in service of the initial "overturning," a mythology that was specifically and purposefully presented in a manner that made it seem senseless and disorienting.

In short, Samael doesn't matter. The presence of a big-deal demon in the endgame of the original Silent Hill was merely to provide the lowest point of the rabbit hole, where even sense of place and time had been upended into a horrifying morass of the utterly senseless.

To even attempt to build upon the mythology and follow the purposely vague rules it laid down runs counter to the point of that mythology, as it drags it straight into the realm of the logical, the sensible, and (worst of all) the familiar.

Really, Toyama had it right: The only way to build upon Silent Hill as a horror experience that thrives on the overturning of the familiar is to further change the context of that horror. That's what Siren represented: The transplanting of the original Silent Hill's plot to a Japanese village, the change of gameplay to stealth, and the use of multiple player-characters to undermine the feeling that any one character was safe. Along the way, it even overturned what it meant to be a zombie, along with the assurances that even a zombie could be killed if shot in the head.

And even Siren only had two installments in it, the second of which was utterly devoted to overturning what the first game had made familiar (from the heroine to the fourteen-year-old schoolgirl, all the way to new elements, such as the competence and trustworthiness of the Japanese Self-Defense Force).

This, by the way, is the principal reason why I don't ask for a "Siren 3," merely a North American localization of Siren 2.

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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania producer thinks SH series should be rebooted
     
         
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Rebooting Silent Hill is like rebooting Final Fantasy... Totally unnecessary...


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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania producer thinks SH series should be rebooted
     
         
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Kenji wrote:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
My reasoning is thus: Silent Hill is a concept that centers on the overturning of the familiar to establish a vague and pervasive sense of discomfort. The first game overturned the bucolic small town, and the second game overturned everything comfortable and "sacred" in the first game (namely the protagonist; the town, itself, had in many ways become the "bedrock of familiarity" in the second game).

After overturning the small town and then overturning the player-as-agent, there was really nowhere left to go, in those terms. So, Silent Hill became increasingly reliant on a mythology that was originally crafted in service of the initial "overturning," a mythology that was specifically and purposefully presented in a manner that made it seem senseless and disorienting.


What about Shattered Memories? It took everything familiar and overturned everything from the town to the mythology and format. The familiarity was the basic plot skeleton that revealed itself false at the end.

Though not discomforting in traditional sense, it did shatter normality and expectations like SH1 and SH2. I believe that's the reason why a surprising number of fans hold reverence for it, especially considering a majority of those fans don't feel the same about any sequel post The Room.


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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania producer thinks SH series should be rebooted

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I really don't see the point in rebooting the series. All they need to do is, like, make a new game that doesn't rely on the old games. Which I sort of feel like they've been doing. The recent games haven't been afraid to add to the series mythology (Downpour and Book of Memories) and imply new things, and the story of the first game has only come back into focus in SH3 and Origins. I mean, Silent Hill 2 was a great sequel to the first game and it had nothing to do with it. The series didn't need a reboot after SH1, just a new game that brought new ideas to the table and kept us interested. The only thing a reboot could do for the series that just another new game couldn't is creating new rules and betraying our expectations. Which they've also already done with Shattered Memories. If they wanted to do something like that again, I'm down with it, but I seriously doubt it will be as effective as the first time.

I think a lot of the people who say they think the series needs a reboot are honestly just tired of the series but can't figure out what it can do to become relevant to them again. I mean, we've all had this conversation several times on here before, and it's pretty much agreed that the core ideas behind the Silent Hill series and it's mythology weren't really intended to maintain player interest for over 8 games, and the fact that the fanbase throws a fit when anything is changed doesn't help at all. But I don't personally believe it needs to reboot anything to become fresh again.

But, again, this is coming from someone who loves the newer games as much as the older games (Silent Hill 2 being a special nothing-is-this-good exception). So I'm sure this isn't going to ring true for anyone who feels differently.


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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania producer thinks SH series should be rebooted
     
         
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teosoleil wrote:
What about Shattered Memories? It took everything familiar and overturned everything from the town to the mythology and format. The familiarity was the basic plot skeleton that revealed itself false at the end.

Personally, I always liked Shattered Memories the most of the new Silent Hill games. It actually regenerated my enthusiasm for the series (which The Room utterly sapped... and while I found Origins and Homecoming to be far better than The Room, they didn't necessarily inspire enthusiasm), if for no other reason than it wasn't a retread of the series, on the surface.

Yet, despite all of its cosmetic differences, it conceptually was very much like every Silent Hill since SH3: That is, it was an attempt (a surprisingly original attempt, but still an attempt) to synthesize elements of SH1 and SH2. In my opinion, it was the best synthesis since SH3, itself, and I consider them equals on my personal scale of satisfaction... but all it really did was "complete the circuit."

However, I'd like to bring up these two points:

1) While it's commonly believed in the fanbase that James's story is only one of an infinite number of possible stories, I'd actually differ and say "James ruined it for everybody." That is, James taught us to distrust the motives of the player-character, and any player-character from that point on would differ from James in terms of degree (from shoplifting to child rape) and little else. I still remember before people started to connect Heather to Cheryl, the biggest question was, "Well, what did Heather do?" It's been that way ever since.

What Shattered Memories did, essentially, was take that to its logical conclusion, as Harry Mason was (so long as he remained in SH1) spotless. Of course, the moment you stick him in a new game, the question comes up, and the distrust of Harry becomes inevitable.

2) Personally speaking, the ending of Shattered Memories meant as much as it did to me because SH1 -- specifically, the means by which the scenario propelled me forward -- left such an impact on me. The love Harry had for Cheryl was legitimized, reinforced, and sanctified by the horrifying journey I, as the player, underwent to rescue her. No father could love his child more, and it was far more effective this way than any number of dialogue lines in which Harry could've professed how much he loved his daughter (i.e. actions are infinitely more meaningful than words).

Funny thing, Harry loved Cheryl more as the game difficulty increased. :wink: By Hard Mode, he the fucking patron saint of fatherhood. :lol:

Because of this, the story already started at an advantageous position, and managed to keep that advantage all the way to the end. If I had never played SH1 -- or hadn't been replaying SH1 over and over again for ten years -- I don't know how effective the story would've been. I suspect not as much, though I can't step outside of myself far enough to really say to what degree.

So, even though Shattered Memories had a completely different Silent Hill and didn't take place in the series mythology, it still was heavily dependent on the first two installments of the series. Leastways, that's the way I see it.

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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania producer thinks SH series should be rebooted

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It desperately needs a reboot. The town has simply become too large for there to be anything else to see/explore without the town betraying its original "tiny town in the middle of nowhere" characterization in the first game. It's also becoming too convoluted in terms of its mythology/timeline.

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I have to cast my lot in with Ryan, Droo, Nanaya, and Kenji on this one. They all beat me to it. The best SH games in popular opinion have, with the exception of SH3, all been games that basically ignored a larger continuity and did whatever they fuck they wanted. A reboot can ONLY be a good thing.

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If it was up to me I'd reboot it and make each new installment from there something completely separate and different aside from having something to do with a town called Silent Hill. No persistent universe between the games.

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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania producer thinks SH series should be rebooted
     
         
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The funny thing about the Silent Hill series is that you can pretty much reboot it and no one would probably notice it all that much. That and it really doesn't need it anyway. A creative person could make a completely new story and if it was good, the game would be good. I think the problem with modern gaming is the lack of creativity (but that's another debate.)

I think a lot of you are just very critical about everything and complain too much. If they did do something outside of the box, it's probably most of you that would complain and they'd know this and try to develop a way to not piss you off.

This isn't Resident Evil where if you all of sudden changed Chris Redfield and Leon Kennedy it would really turn the world upside down.

You could create a completely new character in Silent Hill and they could have nothing to do with virtually anyone or anything in the series. I mean sure they may pass an easter egg or reference here and there, but even if you don't notice it, it doesn't really make much difference.

You could argue that Downpour did this, nobody needed to play any other Silent Hill game to play as or learn anything about Murphy.

If you mean a reboot as in it has to involve past characters like shattered memories, I'd also say this is unnecessary. You could easily continue this series as is and never mention or contradict Alessa or Harry ever again.


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Mantorok wrote:
The funny thing about the Silent Hill series is that you can pretty much reboot it and no one would probably notice it all that much. That and it really doesn't need it anyway. A creative person could make a completely new story and if it was good, the game would be good. I think the problem with modern gaming is the lack of creativity (but that's another debate.)

I think a lot of you are just very critical about everything and complain too much. If they did do something outside of the box, it's probably most of you that would complain and they'd know this and try to develop a way to not piss you off.

This isn't Resident Evil where if you all of sudden changed Chris Redfield and Leon Kennedy it would really turn the world upside down.

You could create a completely new character in Silent Hill and they could have nothing to do with virtually anyone or anything in the series. I mean sure they may pass an easter egg or reference here and there, but even if you don't notice it, it doesn't really make much difference.

You could argue that Downpour did this, nobody needed to play any other Silent Hill game to play as or learn anything about Murphy.

If you mean a reboot as in it has to involve past characters like shattered memories, I'd also say this is unnecessary. You could easily continue this series as is and never mention or contradict Alessa or Harry ever again.


The problem is not the characters, but the town per se, how the otherworld works and the intricacies of the town's powers. We mostly know how it works and what it can do so there isn't much space left for writing something unique there. Hence the need to scrap everything and starting from zero.

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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania producer thinks SH series should be rebooted
     
         
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I've said before, the approach I'd most like to see is an anthology, a series of games with no serious connections, no underlying mythology, no constricting canon. The more rules you have, the less room you have to surprise people, and surprise is, perhaps, the quintessential element to horror. Silent Hill games, even when they're good, are limited in their ability to surprise a veteran player as long as they remain chained to the bloated canon we have now.

So, a 'reboot', strictly speaking, isn't what I want. I don't want a new canon any more than I want the old one. I simply want to see a new direction altogether.

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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania producer thinks SH series should be rebooted
     
         
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Nothing I can say here that can already be said by all the vets on this board. I do think that the series needs a reboot, and it should be done by one consistent team instead of the hodgepodge of developers we've been getting for the last 8 years or so.

I agree with Mephisto in that we should have a new protagonist instead of slinging poor Harry back into the mix. Just please no more amnesiac protagonists for the millionth time. Gameplay wise, Downpour had it down pretty well except for the overly linear Otherworld sequences and the crappy enemy design.

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 Post subject: Re: Castlevania producer thinks SH series should be rebooted

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aj4x94 wrote:
Just please no more amnesiac protagonists for the millionth time.

They really don't do that as often as people say they do. SH2, SH3, and Homecoming are the only ones I can think of, and SH3 is debatable due to the unique circumstances of the protagonist in question.


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I think that can be rehrased as "no protagonists with hidden pasts". SH2, SH3, Homecoming, Origins, and Downpour contain characters whose backstories are slowly revealed piece by piece to the player. The plot isn't necessarily about repressing memories, but it sure as hell feels like it when playing.

I've recently been enjoying The Cat Lady, an artistic and surreal horror game that's its own little blend of David Lynch and Park Chan-wook. The game is wholly psychological (the most beautiful video game to deal explicity with depression) and retains enough mystery without requiring the player to unravel a large portion of the protaganist's past. Silent Hill would benefit from a direction like that.

The formula of having pieces of a character's past being spoonfed to you is unoriginal in the series. I'd sure as hell appreciate a Silent Hill game where, instead of learning the past, we explore and investigate it and the development of character's feelings around it. The Last of Us executes this perfectly, and the plot is strong and digestible without being thin and insignificant.


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