Can't believe this hasn't been discussed further......

[Bishop Sasarai]

As long as the gameplay isn't a chore and a bore, it's fine. Good gameplay makes the game fun, good story makes the player want to continue to the end. One of the reasons why I can't bring myself to play certain games with great gameplay is that the story/plot/characters are lacking. Hell, I'm sort of having a hard time playing through a Zelda game right now.

[CreEPy pAYPhonE]

@Yuki. I would consider this more of the exception rather than the rule, however, because just like how you can't please all of the people all of the time, neither can you DISPLEASE all of the people all of the time. It's. . . .It's like a presidential administration, no matter how terribly he may run it you'll always find people who love the guy. In other words, just because you had some people who loved the game that doesn't mean it hasn't failed. As far as .hack goes, I have no doubt that there are multiple people who love it nor do I doubt you have met plenty of them but I, on the other hand, have never met one person who like the game.

[clips]

As far as the gameplay vs storyline goes.....as others have stated, it has to be a balance....the gameplay mechanics in the SH series overall was never that great, but it wasn't irritating either.....until homecoming......that was the first SH game where i found myself being annoyed and irritated by that games combat. Engaging the enemies wasn't fun at all, and it came down to mindless pattern remembering. If you tried to play it like the traditional SH games, you'll end up with low health after every enemy encounter.

The game can have a great storyline, but if the gameplay is annoying and irritating, that will make alot of folks just put the game down and not want to finish it. So for me, i've always played SH for the storylines, the characters and the wierd and terrofying atmosphere first, and i never really played the games for it's gameplay...

There's very few games where i play strickly for the gameplay unless it's sports or fighting games...i guess i could say that i do play the game "Vanquish" for it's gameplay since the storyline is horribly weak, but it's incredibly fun to play......you gotta have an even balance for the SH series tho.

[Arthemesic]

So this side quest thing is actually going to happen?.. oh boy

[CreEPy pAYPhonE]

Something that is throwing me off.
So far everyone seems to be excited about the fact that you get to explore the town on a deeper level but seem split on the whole sidequest situation. Now this dosen't make any sense to me because what would you prefer? Having all of that wonderful nightmare of a town and not being about to do anything with it? I mean what's the point of exploring it all if there isn't anything to do? All that does is turns us into a bunch slacked jawed tourists, except the big difference is this: We would be touring a virtual town. . . .What's the point?
I mean sure, there's bound to be tons of cool things to look at but then if you just wanted to look at stuff, why not just look at the screenshots?

[Lostkitsune]

Perhaps these sidequests are done early in the game, or by another character? What I mean by early in the game is, perhaps pre-otherworld experience maybe we can explore the town, get to know the people, perhaps help them and get rewards/weapons that we can use after everything goes to shit. That'd be kinda nice, I can see Murphy just strollin' through town, helping old ladies get cats out of trees in exchange for a steel pipe, or helping Timmy out of the well before the rain comes.

[jdnation]

It seems some people seem to be confusing the sidequests with how they are done in Japanese RPGs. This won't work like that of course. It's highly likely just some stuff you can do off the beaten path, where providing you have a weapon capable of breaking a lock or a window you can climb into a nearby apartment building, find a funny looking door requiring a funny looking key, find some find of notes hinting at where the key is wrapped in a story, find some kind of puzzle that will get you the key. Use key to open door, discover climax to short story of people in apartment. Get item that is handy/just cool to have.

I wouldn't think too much about it but it's nice having extra things to do. It could all fit in with the overall story where maybe the main character is a burgler who is used to breaking into people's homes or something...

So we'll get to experience some cool little stories about the people in SIlent Hill or about Silent Hill itself, no different than finding newspaper articles or messages in any of the previous games about the town or other characters or creepy events, except this time they're more involved.

[Tillerman]

Nobody knows how they're going to implement these "sidequests" yet. They may well choose a way that everyone is happy with, but that remains to be seen. One thing that nags at me though is what kind of rewards we will be getting from these quests... this is a game in which we are forced to only carry one weapon at a time. Given that that's the case, I wonder how much of an inventory we will have to carry things. It would be totally illogical to allow us to have an unlimited inventory, and yet be limited to only 1 weapon. So I'm thinking that this game will have either a limited inventory or no inventory.

So what I'm getting at is, how are we supposed to be rewarded from these quests? Typically in any open world game you would expect to have some sort of reward for going out of your way, but how do you do that in a game where you can't stockpile weapons and where in all likelihood inventory will be limited?

[Yuki]

Nobody knows how they're going to implement these "sidequests" yet. They may well choose a way that everyone is happy with, but that remains to be seen. One thing that nags at me though is what kind of rewards we will be getting from these quests... this is a game in which we are forced to only carry one weapon at a time. Given that that's the case, I wonder how much of an inventory we will have to carry things. It would be totally illogical to allow us to have an unlimited inventory, and yet be limited to only 1 weapon. So I'm thinking that this game will have either a limited inventory or no inventory.

So what I'm getting at is, how are we supposed to be rewarded from these quests? Typically in any open world game you would expect to have some sort of reward for going out of your way, but how do you do that in a game where you can't stockpile weapons and where in all likelihood inventory will be limited?

Wait, where did they say we'd only be using one weapon at a time? I thought they'd only confirmed using surrounding objects.

[stopped_clock]

So what I'm getting at is, how are we supposed to be rewarded from these quests? Typically in any open world game you would expect to have some sort of reward for going out of your way, but how do you do that in a game where you can't stockpile weapons and where in all likelihood inventory will be limited?

I would hope that they manage to make the "sidequests" enjoyable and interesting enough that playing through them is a reward in and of itself. Or with information rather than an item as a reward.

Alternatively they could have a reward system which divies out bonuses for completing sidequests after you complete the game. Extra costumes and such for repeat playthroughs perhaps.

[Tillerman]

I would hope that they manage to make the "sidequests" enjoyable and interesting enough that playing through them is a reward in and of itself.

That's easier said than done... and even if they do, there's going to be a large percentage of people who will become frustrated at the lack of tangible reward, and irritated at the game. That's not really good game design.

Alternatively they could have a reward system which divies out bonuses for completing sidequests after you complete the game. Extra costumes and such for repeat playthroughs perhaps.

That works if there are only a few sidequests... but not if there's a lot.

[merie]

I just found this about the sidequests:

"15-20 sidequests are available to choose from. Unlockable items come from completing them"

They seem to be pretty much optional.
http://helldescent.com/2011/06/03/downp ... -from-oxm/

[Yuki]

http://e3.gamespot.com/video/6318777/

It is mentioned that the sidequests flesh out the story, but also implied that you can understand the plot without them.

EDIT:
Brian Gomez says that it's like a horror anthology: stories that might not be 100% related to Murphy, but still relevant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0QDBA3etGY

[Tillerman]

EDIT:
Brian Gomez says that it's like a horror anthology: stories that might not be 100% related to Murphy, but still relevant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0QDBA3etGY

That's basically what I was afraid of.

[Yuki]

EDIT:
Brian Gomez says that it's like a horror anthology: stories that might not be 100% related to Murphy, but still relevant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0QDBA3etGY

That's basically what I was afraid of.

Why is that a bad thing, out of curiosity? It's Silent Hill bringing in bits and pieces of other people, just as it's always done. They'll still be relevant, just as the entire bit about Walter in SH2 was.

[Tillerman]

Why is that a bad thing, out of curiosity? It's Silent Hill bringing in bits and pieces of other people, just as it's always done. They'll still be relevant, just as the entire bit about Walter in SH2 was.

I don't like story based games that break up the story into sidequests. I'd rather have the entirety of the story focused into a linear narrative... I find it to be more coherent and controlled that way. If the sidequest stories are just backstory stuff that isn't relevant to the main plot, then it seems like an unwelcome distraction to me... but if they *are* relevant, I don't think they should be optional. I don't mind the idea of optional things in a Silent Hill game, in fact I like it, but I would prefer that the game's narrative stay as tight and focused as possible.

This also sort of makes it sound like you will be running around performing tasks for NPCs like a GTA game, which leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

[Yuki]

Why is that a bad thing, out of curiosity? It's Silent Hill bringing in bits and pieces of other people, just as it's always done. They'll still be relevant, just as the entire bit about Walter in SH2 was.

I don't like story based games that break up the story into sidequests. I'd rather have the entirety of the story focused into a linear narrative... I find it to be more coherent and controlled that way. If the sidequest stories are just backstory stuff that isn't relevant to the main plot, then it seems like an unwelcome distraction to me... but if they *are* relevant, I don't think they should be optional. I don't mind the idea of optional things in a Silent Hill game, in fact I like it, but I would prefer that the game's narrative stay as tight and focused as possible.

This also sort of makes it sound like you will be running around performing tasks for NPCs like a GTA game, which leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

The video also said that the sidequests are very subtle. If you explore, you'll find them, but it's not like you'll notice them and they're not with NPCs or anything, as in the video above.

What I'm supposing is that they're thematically relevant. I suppose like going out of your way to explore, but as if you would find memos while doing that in previous Silent Hill games. We'll see.
(A second question, because I honestly can't recall: are you the sort of person who wants the ability to explore Silent Hill? Because that sounds a little like the opposite of what having a tight and focused narrative would do.)

[Tillerman]

(A second question, because I honestly can't recall: are you the sort of person who wants the ability to explore Silent Hill? Because that sounds a little like the opposite of what having a tight and focused narrative would do.)

Yes, to a certain extent. I think you can still have both exploration and a tight narrative, the key being that none of the narrative elements should be missable.

[alone in the town]

It used to be that we explored the town for the simple reason that the game usually would tell you where Point B was, and then left you to figure out how to get there from Point A. That usually maneuvered you into seeing a lot in a natural manner. If you went the wrong way, you usually found a dead end, maybe a monster or two, maybe some free supplies, the opportunity to enjoy the scenery, and it ended up being a distraction of less than a minute. If you went the right way, you didn't miss anything vital by not going in the other directions. Almost everything that was vital to the plot could be discovered simply by paying attention to what was on the main path.

If you make a game with little nooks and crannies to explore, most of us will do it without being enticed. The idea of hiding pieces of the plot down alleys and in back paths in the form of sidequests is contrived.

[Martee]

If you make a game with little nooks and crannies to explore, most of us will do it without being enticed. The idea of hiding pieces of the plot down alleys and in back paths in the form of sidequests is contrived.

This ^^

I also think that having optional areas to go explore which have a real purpose within the plot in a way detracts from the mystery of the game, side areas/dead ends with nothing more than monsters/items and pretty scenery to look at really add to the feeling of isolation too.
If there are some side locations that seem sort of random and leave the player guessing why it's there that would be great. Like 'There was a hole here'.

I also liked that in the older Silent Hill games each character really felt like they had a purpose and some greater drive to progress through the game, almost like something was controlling them to move forwards (the town?).
When side quests are added I worry that they might dilute the drive. (Mass Effect and Dragon Age were ruined by side quests for me).