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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 20 Jan 2010
Notes left: 217
Last seen at: North Carolina, USA
I guess it's easier for her to let go without all the relics from the past.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 22 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2195
Last seen at: Koholint island
Actually... I took it to mean that since she had no relics to put in her box, it made it harder to let go. After all, if he freezes and breaks, then he essentially goes away, but Cheryl wouldn't let him freeze or go away at all that time.

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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 22 Jul 2005
Notes left: 1421
Last seen at: room 302
Quote:
A broken ward: Probably represents that Cheryl doesn’t feels safe anymore. Her father was the one that made her feel secure before, but now he’s gone. Alternatively, it could symbolize Cheryl being “in the dark” about Harry’s passing.

Agreed.

AuraTwilight wrote:
Prometheus represents Foresight. He was the patron of humanity who gave us the gift of knowledge and truth (which is what the fire was metaphorical for), and ended up "dying" for it.

The Modern Promethus, Frankenstein's Monster, was created using this divine fire (science), and was likened to being a man-made god. An invincible, beautiful, perfect figure created by a man's mind. However, the modern Prometheus turned out to be no such thing, and was a falliable, flawed, imperfect thing that didn't belong in the world, and eventually was lost.

This, but Kaufman also talks about Cheryl's imaginary Hary being like Frankenstein, I think.

Pasted below is from my Easter Eggs/Plot Guide, very unfinished and I'm just rambling in most of it:


**************************************
A Winter Beacon
**************************************
“Covering Himself with light as with a cloak.
Stretching out the heavens as a curtain" is on a
sticker on the bottom.

Lighthouses are everywhere in this game. For those of
us who played SH1, we are led to believe that we'll
probably end up at the actual lighthouse where Harry
sees Alessa in SH1. This doesn't happen; the lighthouse
is The Lighthouse Clinic. The lighthouse also helped
James get across the lake in SH2. Regardless of whether
it's an actual lighthouse or not, the lighthouse is
still Cheryl's actual, physical location. Everything
points to the lighthouse. And what is a lighthouse for?
It helps people find their way in the dark or in storms.
It points ships in the right direction. Harry is confused
and he's unsure where he's going, so it makes sense that
he's pointed toward the lighthouse. When he's finally close,
on the frozen lake, Dahlia calls and says. "Turn back!
For our daughter's sake!" This is because the lighthouse
is where the truth about everything is, all is revealed
there. The whole delusion falls apart when he gets to the
lighthouse, that's why Dahlia tells him to turn back
for Cheryl's sake. If he gets there, Cheryl will finally
have to face her feelings about her father's death.
Everything points to the lighthouse, but all the characters
are constantly trying to keep Harry from getting there,
standing in his way of discovering the truth.

**************************************
Hidden Fire
**************************************
This is a pack of Hemingway Ultra Lights cigarettes. There
are a few Hemingway references, and when Ernest introduces
himself to Maria in SH2, she says, "Ernest Hemingway?" (On
a related note, compare when Harry introduces himself to
Lisa in SHSM: "I'm Harry." "Harry Houdini?"). It may also
be because Heather interacts with the cigarettes in SH3,
saying she quit. Cheryl smokes in SHSM, also, if you go by
the problem child messages about smoking in a nonsmoking zone.

**************************************
Frozen Waters
**************************************
There is ice everywhere in the game, obviously, and icy
imagery. There is also the frigid messages, referring to more
sexual problems, as well as Cheryl being stuck in a state of
not dealing with Harry's death.

**************************************
A Moveable Feast
**************************************
"All stories end in death" is engraved on the knife
handle. This is also another Hemingway reference.
Hemingway committed suicide, which could be connected
to the words on the handle. It also brings to mind
Angela and the knife in SH2. It's found in a hunting
lodge, which also brings us back to death; there are
slaughtered animals all around, which could be
connected to the idea of a "feast," but also with death.

**************************************
Pinned Beauty
**************************************
This has an extinct butterfly pinned to it, and Harry
talks to Lisa about Cheryl collecting butterflies. Lisa
thinks it's creepy to collect dead bugs, even butterflies.
Harry emphasizes that they are "pretty bugs." Themes of
butterflies were important in SH1 and SH2. Here, I think
it refers to sexuality more than anything. Caterpillars
makes cocoons and emerge as butterflies; butterflies are
the mature, transformed state. When Harry died, Cheryl was
a young, immature, prepubescent girl. Now she's a grown
woman. The butterfly may be beautiful, but it's still a
bug to Lisa. I think this shows Cheryl's ambivalence about
growing up and becoming a woman, and being unsure about
sexuality.

**************************************
Suffocated Forever:
**************************************
A bug in a bead of amber. I think this represents how Cheryl
has trapped her image of Harry in her mind, she's preserved
him. There is a lot of suffocating and choking in the game,
as well, but I think this is more about preservation. When
you think of bugs trapped in amber, you think of bugs that
may have lived with the dinosaurds, yet they are still
perfectly preserved in their original state. Cheryl's memory
of Harry is preserved likewise.

**************************************
My Plastic Perfect Girl
**************************************
This appears to be a naked Barbie doll with pigtails. I think
it refers to womanhood, like the butterfly, and to sexuality.
She has pigtails like a little girl, but the body of a woman,
emphasized because the doll is nude. The pigtails echos talk
about a girl in a wig, a prostitute, who variously looks like
the man's daughter, or she's wearing a wig but not actually
very young, or that he hit her because he's angry with himself
and she looks so much like his daughter. A contrast between
the appearance of youth and one's actual age, as well as the
themes of Cheryl with older men.

**************************************
A Frigid Jewel
**************************************
"Ice Queen" is written on the band. More themes of being
frigid.

**************************************
An Eternal Rose
**************************************
Just as one of the movies playing at the cinema is called
"Together Forever," there are a lot of themes of love, marriage,
and beauty and how long these things last or don't last.

**************************************
Synthetic Femur
**************************************
This is a dog toy. Cheryl apparently had a well-loved dog
at some point. The principal thinks his dog is his one true
friend. I think in the context of the game, dogs may be a
symbol of unconditional love in a way.

**************************************
Memories Undeveloped
**************************************
Roll of photos. Photos and videos play a large role in the
game, because they are Cheryl's way of keeping her father
alive. She replays old home movies endlessly.

**************************************
My Flying Lizard
**************************************
"Lost World Terry" is written on the tag. Dinosaurs make one
recall Alessa's drawings in SH1, but I think some of the toys
here merely represent childhood.

**************************************
The Modern Prometheus
**************************************
Frankenstein doll, won from a machine in the cinema. Dr. K refers
to Cheryl's memory of Harry as Frankenstein-like, which is to say,
she's stitched it together from many parts to make something
which is different from what the real Harry was, it is part
reality (memory) and part fantasy.

**************************************
We, Ouroboros
**************************************
"Love is a hungry drug" is engraved on the ring. This is probably
partially referring to the Ouroboros puzzle piece in SH1, but it's
noteworthy that it has two snakes and emphasizes "we."

**************************************
Poetry as Precise as Geometry
**************************************
"Everything one invents is true" engraved on a pen.
I think this tells how important memories are to Cheryl.
She lives inside her head, her memories, real or not,
are more real to her than anything. She may embellish
her memories of her father, but that doesn't make these
fantasies any less true and important to her.

**************************************
A Happy Bond
**************************************
This is a friendship bracelet discovered by making a fish
throw up. The ambiguity of emotions here is important.
"Sweetie" is written on the bead. Cheryl has a lot of
ambiguous feelings toward people, and probably her
relationships with others have suffered a lot from it.
She villifies her mother, who may not deserve it.
Harry calls her "sweetie" sometimes in the game, yet
the idea is not completely sweet, because of the vomiting
fish.

**************************************
A Beacon, A Key
**************************************
Another lighthouse. Because it's a keychain, it may refer
to the idea of what's really happening being unlocked, in
a sense, when you get to the Lighthouse.

**************************************
Your Diamond Heart
**************************************
More reference to marriage.

**************************************
The Dragon
**************************************
A red dragon, purchased at "Myths and Legends of
Lakeside." It refers to the videotape, where Harry
and Cheryl are being taped with their heads through
the board with the picture of a princess and a knight.
Harry explains that knights slay dragons. Cheryl is
the princess; Harry is the knight. The dragon, I think
is cheryl's personal demons, her not confronting
Harry's death, and allowing her denial to negatively
impact her life.

**************************************
Eve/Adam
**************************************
These two lockets have photos of Dahlia and Harry,
respectively. To a child, parents are like Adam and
Eve. The mother is the model for what a woman should be
like; the father the model for a man. If you bring Freud
into it, the opposite-sex parent is the model for one's
future mate. Cheryl seeks out older men who remind her
of her father. (If you go by the Lisa dialogue, she then
regrets it the next day.) "Never forget" is written on
Adam memento, obviously referring to Harry.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
Notes left: 2523
I do want to say that I'm fairly sure one of the playthroughs I did I didn't get mementos and yet I still did not get the ending where she does not let go of Harry. I'm unsure, though; it's been a while.


Also, I believe something is written on Dahlia's half of the locket. If I remember correctly, it says "True Love".

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11380
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Indeed, it does say "True Love."

I'm still convinced that there's a connection between Harry's final moments with Cheryl and the percentage of mementos you collect.

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I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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SHH Staff Writer
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Missing since: 06 Feb 2009
Notes left: 1041
Last seen at: California
AuraTwilight wrote:
Indeed, it does say "True Love."

I'm still convinced that there's a connection between Harry's final moments with Cheryl and the percentage of mementos you collect.


I went through the game not collecting anything and I still got the "good" final moments between Harry abnd Cheryl. I'm thinking now that that scene might depend on how you act during the pysch testing... like if you take it seriously or not. If you act like you don't particularity care by not coloring in the picture, place everything to one extreme, contradict yourself (like at the school part you are a "Slut" but also a "virgin" never looking at the doctor or other characters. It may translate into "Cheryl isn't really getting therapy and is just going through the motions" and therefore will continue to live in denial." I'm testing my theory in my current playthrough and see if it effects anything...so far in my 10+ playthroughs I haven't been able to get the "in denial" cutscene so I'm hoping this will do the trick!

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
Notes left: 2523
I mayyyy do another runthrough sometime to try and verify it. I'm fairly sure though that it doesn't always correlate. Of course, I could be wrong.

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http://beyond-the-joystick.blogspot.com - Also on Tumblr!


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11380
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Whitney wrote:
AuraTwilight wrote:
Indeed, it does say "True Love."

I'm still convinced that there's a connection between Harry's final moments with Cheryl and the percentage of mementos you collect.


I went through the game not collecting anything and I still got the "good" final moments between Harry abnd Cheryl. I'm thinking now that that scene might depend on how you act during the pysch testing... like if you take it seriously or not. If you act like you don't particularity care by not coloring in the picture, place everything to one extreme, contradict yourself (like at the school part you are a "Slut" but also a "virgin" never looking at the doctor or other characters. It may translate into "Cheryl isn't really getting therapy and is just going through the motions" and therefore will continue to live in denial." I'm testing my theory in my current playthrough and see if it effects anything...so far in my 10+ playthroughs I haven't been able to get the "in denial" cutscene so I'm hoping this will do the trick!


I hadn't thought of that! I'm right behind you, Whitney, let's check this out.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 12 Oct 2009
Notes left: 2523
If I remember correctly from my last playthrough, I didn't contradict myself, but still managed to get the denial ending. I was going for Sleaze and Sirens.

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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 22 Jul 2005
Notes left: 1421
Last seen at: room 302
AuraTwilight wrote:
Indeed, it does say "True Love."

I'm still convinced that there's a connection between Harry's final moments with Cheryl and the percentage of mementos you collect.

I thought it said "True Happiness," not "True Love," but my PSP is upstairs and I'm too lazy to check right now.

I started a speed run where I'm not collecting anything I don't have to, to see if that changes anything. I don't know.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11380
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Oh, it does say True Happiness. X_x I just checked. I knew it said "True <Something Nice>", and True Love sounded close enough, but I just went to verify.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 22 Jul 2005
Notes left: 1421
Last seen at: room 302
My speedrun with not collecting anything ended up with the pre-ending where Cheryl talks about blame and Harry shatters, and then Drunken Dad ending. Don't know if the mementos influenced anything. I couldn't get him to comment on the doll or bear in the beginning, and I wanted him to because i wanted to see what that might influence.

I was thinking more on the Flying Lizard:

**************************************
My Flying Lizard
**************************************
"Lost World Terry" is written on the tag. I think some of the toys
here merely represent childhood, but it's worth mentioning that
it's another extinct animal. The Xerxes Blue butterfly is also
extinct. While I don't know what kind of bug was in the amber,
it's possible that it's extinct as well. Extinct animals aren't
alive anymore; Harry is not alive anymore. One version of the pawn
shop has a taxidermied dodo bird, also extinct. I think the fact that
there are several taxidermied animals in the game is also related.
All versions of the pawn shop have one (dodo, lioness, peacock). There
is also the stuffed bear and several other animals in the hunting
lodge. Like the dead butterfly or the bug in amber, they are preserved.
Just like Cheryl's memories of Harry.

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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 07 Mar 2007
Notes left: 541
Last seen at: South Carolina, USA
Is it possible that some of the mementos have different things written on them in different versions of the game? I could swear "A Frigid Jewel" on my copy said "Ice Gem" instead of "Ice Queen."


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11380
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
No, I don't think so.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 22 Jul 2005
Notes left: 1421
Last seen at: room 302
Likewise, I'm pretty sure they stay the same.

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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 07 Mar 2007
Notes left: 541
Last seen at: South Carolina, USA
Ok, I opened my file and peeked into the memeno box... (NTSC Playstation 2 version). Out of all the mementos that have text that I can actually read (13-inch screen), this is the only one that was different.

Image

Image


Last edited by MariaRising on 09 Jul 2010, edited 1 time in total.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11380
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Alright, and can someone give a screenshot of "Ice Queen" on another version?

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Jan 2005
Notes left: 7376
Last seen at: Couldn't tell you even if I tired
I think they are consistent... and about the only thing in that game that is so.


That is partially why after my 10th or so play through I stopped collecting them. I just fly past them in my games.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 10 May 2006
Notes left: 4658
Last seen at: My Slinky! My cuddly little pet Slinky! *sobs*
nur_ein_tier wrote:
I was thinking more on the Flying Lizard:

**************************************
My Flying Lizard
**************************************
"Lost World Terry" is written on the tag. I think some of the toys
here merely represent childhood, but it's worth mentioning that
it's another extinct animal. The Xerxes Blue butterfly is also
extinct. While I don't know what kind of bug was in the amber,
it's possible that it's extinct as well. Extinct animals aren't
alive anymore; Harry is not alive anymore. One version of the pawn
shop has a taxidermied dodo bird, also extinct. I think the fact that
there are several taxidermied animals in the game is also related.
All versions of the pawn shop have one (dodo, lioness, peacock). There
is also the stuffed bear and several other animals in the hunting
lodge. Like the dead butterfly or the bug in amber, they are preserved.
Just like Cheryl's memories of Harry.

There's also sort of a wink at the original SH1 in the bugs and the pterodactyl doll, don't you think? Not just in the fact that they're "back" for this version, but also the idea of a "lost world," or "lost version," making this the "new world" or "new version." Love your analyses of the objects, BTW. :)

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Just Passing Through
 Post subject: Re: Memento symbolism.

Missing since: 15 Feb 2012
Notes left: 1
For me, the dragon has always represented fairytales: Harry was Cheryl's 'White Knight', and they're famous for slaying dragons


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