SHSM and how it isn't compatible with the main timeline.

[Escapist]

My memory is not perfect right now, but if I'm not wrong, Alessa never created the Otherworld, she just was the first person to ever have control of it.

Silent Hill has always been a mysterious place, not just since the cult's creation.

[Yuki]

http://www.translatedmemories.com/bookp ... ryofSH.jpg

http://www.translatedmemories.com/bookp ... istory.jpg

As far as I can tell from official materials, Alessa's Otherworld is the first manifestation of it, unless we count the disappearances (first link) as people going into an Otherworld. The town only begins to call out to people after Alessa's incident ("Starting with the first game, the power that the town holds has intensified greatly.).

[AuraTwilight]

The town always had a sacred power, but the Otherworld was created by Alessa. If we look at just SH2, ignoring the continuity of SH1, one could just say the Otherworld was created by emotional trauma, which is how Alessa created it in the first place.

[Rhenislauss]

This game is completely unrelated to the others.

Couldn't possibly be canon. It doesn't even feel like a Silent Hill game to me.

They could have just made up their own story with their own characters, instead they just plonked a bunch of characters from the first game in Bizarro world and fucked around with it.

[cascade88]

This game is completely unrelated to the others.

Couldn't possibly be canon. It doesn't even feel like a Silent Hill game to me.

They could have just made up their own story with their own characters, instead they just plonked a bunch of characters from the first game in Bizarro world and fucked around with it.

I think they did a good job with it. They didn't try to say with this game, "Forget the old Silent Hill", they're just saying "Well this is what could have been, and we're showing it to you now." With that in consideration, I think they did a good job.

They had subtle references, homages, if you will, to the original one, too.

PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:

The way blood trickles down Lisa's face; the brief wheelchair sequence does reference the wheelchairs of the old game, as well, and I saw in another thread that you said it had no wheelchair reference.

And anyway, I just think it was smart. To be honest, I'm more of a fan of the whole 'An evil cult did it' story line, moreso than this new one, but that doesn't make the newly imagined Silent Hill any less brilliantly done. Demons and cults can be scary. So can the thought of being so delusional that you imagine/invent an entire human being, and scenario, in your head for eighteen years.

Anyway, more on topic, if someone tries really hard, they can make this fit in with the canon, if they'd like to (the Bad ending is canon, SH3 was a delusion/dream, etc), but I still whole-heartedly believe that this was never the true intent of the creators of Shattered Memories.

[AuraTwilight]

This game is completely unrelated to the others.

Couldn't possibly be canon. It doesn't even feel like a Silent Hill game to me.

They could have just made up their own story with their own characters, instead they just plonked a bunch of characters from the first game in Bizarro world and fucked around with it.

What part of "alternate universe" don't you people understand? God, I can't imagine the hemorrhoids you'd get reading DC and Marvel comic books.

[Escapist]

Mi only big problem with the "alternative universe" is that it seems like saying that the other one was an "unbreakable wall of information totally canon".

[Yuki]

Except... it was. The old series was all canon, with MAYBE the exception of Origins. It had its own continuity that did not mess up.

@cascade88, if you try insanely hard you can, but there are still errors in trying to fit it in, not to mention that initial statements from Climax say it's a separate universe.

@Aura, yeah, if we ignore SH1 it shows that it's emotional trauma that created the Otherworld in the old series, though I think that if we do include SH1 it enriches the history. Alessa was the catalyst, but now SH calls out to anyone with heavy emotional trauma. Of course, this is all subverted with SM and we have to see what will happen in the next game.

[Escapist]

To my head gets the words of one guy of the original Team Silent after Silent Hill 3. I'm not sure where I found them but he said certainly something like this:

"Silent Hill 3 does not mean that the Good ending of the original Silent Hill is the canon one -whenever we eant we could make another game based off another ending of that game."

Then, what if Team Silent would have done that? What if Shattered Memories was created by Team Silent? I don't think we would said it isn't canon.

The thing that bugs me actually is the canon thing. Alternate universe to the "normal one"? Yes. Canon? Why not?

[Yuki]

Let's put it this way: it's not canon to the original games. It is canon to its own universe.

[AuraTwilight]

There are the first four games (and Origins and Homecoming, I guess) in one universe, and Shattered Memories is an alternate universe. It's like how Marvel and DC comics have all sorts of alternate universes that are equally real, same with the Silent Hill movie.

[Cyrus Hanley]

This game is completely unrelated to the others.

Couldn't possibly be canon. It doesn't even feel like a Silent Hill game to me.

They could have just made up their own story with their own characters, instead they just plonked a bunch of characters from the first game in Bizarro world and fucked around with it.

Uh... the game is related to the others.

If it wasn't, then it wouldn't be a Silent Hill game.

Flawed logic is flawed.

This game is completely unrelated to the others.

Couldn't possibly be canon. It doesn't even feel like a Silent Hill game to me.

They could have just made up their own story with their own characters, instead they just plonked a bunch of characters from the first game in Bizarro world and fucked around with it.

What part of "alternate universe" don't you people understand? God, I can't imagine the hemorrhoids you'd get reading DC and Marvel comic books.

<3

Mi only big problem with the "alternative universe" is that it seems like saying that the other one was an "unbreakable wall of information totally canon".

Maybe Climax realised that trying to work with the Silent Hill/Silent Hill 3 a la Origins would only result in them ####ing it up again?

[rm2kking]

Alternate universe. That's it. Non-canon. Accept it.

You guys can accept it with the movie, why not Shattered Memories? It's not like it's a new concept or anything.

[nicodemus]

i've signed up to this forum to respond to this thread.

SHSM should not be simply disregarded under the presumption that it is "non-canon."

In fact, the interview on this very website goes against the notion that it is non-canon. The interview can be found here:

http://silenthillheaven.com/main/shhf_shsminterview/

Quoting from it (bold emphasis mine):

"...a lot of people asked “Why make a non-canon game?” or “can you confirm this game isn’t canon?” or “Will you make a SH1 remake in the real canon?” etc etc. In an earlier interview I stated that this was a separate universe/canon from the PS1 original. However, I regret giving that answer; I didn’t realize the gravity of the question. Silent Hill is very unique as a series, because the games themselves are about a subjective reality. Each game has multiple endings and an argument could be made that each one of them is the "real" ending. This makes it very hard to even identify the “canonical” elements of the series as a whole. We know James went to Silent Hill looking for Mary… but we don’t know how or if he left. Not really. Shattered Memories, like the other games, deals with a subjective reality centered around the town of Silent Hill – I would say it’s just as canonical as any of the games. No, Shattered Memories doesn’t replace SH1 in the continuity. However, that doesn’t necessarily mean it isn’t canonical. That, after all, is what sets Silent Hill apart from other video game series."


SHSM is not in the same category as the movie and should not be grouped with it, which can be seen by contrasting the statements above with the following statement about the movie.

"The movie exists in its own reality outside of the games..."


Regarding the game's timeline:

KLIMAT: I wonder how big the Team Silent documentation legacy is. There is a Homecoming guide that lists what years each game takes place in. Are these endorsed by Konami as official dates? Or are developers free to do what they wish with the timeline?

TOMM: Konami definitely has information and dates that we work off of, but an important part of Silent Hill is keeping those things secret. (Just part of that ambiguity.) So, the writers of that guide were probably just giving context to the events of the games, but those should not be considered “canonical” dates. Also as I mentioned earlier, Konami is still in charge of all the games, so nothing a developer does is ever just for the heck of it.



SHSM is an amazing Silent Hill game. It's a great addition to the series, and I look forward to more from this developer building upon what they've already produced.

I would hate for this game to be less successful because people have developed such strong attachments to the original storyline that they refuse to consider the chance that this game could be a part of the SH they've come to know and love.

I would also hate for them to miss out on the innovative and daring SH experience this is, and how it does add to the SH mythos, especially given the ending.

In short, both this game and dedicated fans of SH deserve more than to write off this game because it doesn't fit their previously constructed ideas of what constitutes the "canon" reality of SH.

Rather, SH is a mysterious and malleable place, and we, as fans, should do what we've always done: adapt.

[Yuki]

i've signed up to this forum to respond to this thread.

SHSM should not be simply disregarded under the presumption that it is "non-canon."

In fact, the interview on this very website goes against the notion that it is non-canon. The interview can be found here:

http://silenthillheaven.com/main/shhf_shsminterview/

Quoting from it (bold emphasis mine):

"...a lot of people asked “Why make a non-canon game?” or “can you confirm this game isn’t canon?” or “Will you make a SH1 remake in the real canon?” etc etc. In an earlier interview I stated that this was a separate universe/canon from the PS1 original. However, I regret giving that answer; I didn’t realize the gravity of the question. Silent Hill is very unique as a series, because the games themselves are about a subjective reality. Each game has multiple endings and an argument could be made that each one of them is the "real" ending. This makes it very hard to even identify the “canonical” elements of the series as a whole. We know James went to Silent Hill looking for Mary… but we don’t know how or if he left. Not really. Shattered Memories, like the other games, deals with a subjective reality centered around the town of Silent Hill – I would say it’s just as canonical as any of the games. No, Shattered Memories doesn’t replace SH1 in the continuity. However, that doesn’t necessarily mean it isn’t canonical. That, after all, is what sets Silent Hill apart from other video game series."


SHSM is not in the same category as the movie and should not be grouped with it, which can be seen by contrasting the statements above with the following statement about the movie.

"The movie exists in its own reality outside of the games..."


Regarding the game's timeline:

KLIMAT: I wonder how big the Team Silent documentation legacy is. There is a Homecoming guide that lists what years each game takes place in. Are these endorsed by Konami as official dates? Or are developers free to do what they wish with the timeline?

TOMM: Konami definitely has information and dates that we work off of, but an important part of Silent Hill is keeping those things secret. (Just part of that ambiguity.) So, the writers of that guide were probably just giving context to the events of the games, but those should not be considered “canonical” dates. Also as I mentioned earlier, Konami is still in charge of all the games, so nothing a developer does is ever just for the heck of it.



SHSM is an amazing Silent Hill game. It's a great addition to the series, and I look forward to more from this developer building upon what they've already produced.

I would hate for this game to be less successful because people have developed such strong attachments to the original storyline that they refuse to consider the chance that this game could be a part of the SH they've come to know and love.

I would also hate for them to miss out on the innovative and daring SH experience this is, and how it does add to the SH mythos, especially given the ending.

In short, both this game and dedicated fans of SH deserve more than to write off this game because it doesn't fit their previously constructed ideas of what constitutes the "canon" reality of SH.

Rather, SH is a mysterious and malleable place, and we, as fans, should do what we've always done: adapt.

Er, we've already been over this before.

Their original statement was that it takes place in an alternate universe. Later statements, as you've quoted, state that it is an alternate canon, that everything itself IS canon. It's close to the same statement, but opening it up to links to the original canon... though, it feels to me like it's a "CRAP PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THE ALTERNATE UNIVERSE" response.

Also, there are problems with linking it to the original canon, as have already been covered in this thread. Take a look through it.

[nicodemus]

Cheryl is older here than she was in 3.

In 3 she was already trying to hide from everything that happened to her in 1.

It's not unreasonable to assume that, sometime after, she goes back to denying all the madness of her life and has a psychotic break.

SHSM is a representation of her mental journey, which is being manipulated by Dr. K in order to attain a certain result.

that's not very hard. i can still keep the old games and still have Cheryl in therapy from her messed up life in her late 20s.

as far as the dates go, i already pointed out why that isn't reliable.

as to when Harry dies, it's impossible to say really. K could be lying to her, leading to a particular goal or trying to reinforce in her mind that the events of 1 didn't happen, or maybe he did die during 1 (at any point) and Cheryl never accepted that, or maybe he did die in 3 and *that* event was too much for Cheryl to handle and she broke, preferring to think that Dad was still looking for her.

in any case, because we're talking psychology and subjective memory, i don't see a problem in keeping it all together because many interpretations could be true. it's not like any of these characters are ultimately reliable witnesses.

as for the developer intent, regardless of what you may feel about them changing their story, your feeling isn't a fact. the fact is, this is the party line they're holding to now and i prefer to accept that rather than just ignore it and the entire game.

but of course, in the end, it's all fiction. do whatever you want with it. i find it to be more fun to keep it all in the family, as it were.

[AuraTwilight]

Or, alternatively, SH3 takes place after SHSM, and is a big allegory for Cheryl/Heather not only confronting the truth of the matter in more direct terms, but also grappling and dealing with the grief and anger it caused all her life: Notice Claudia is essentially a perfect Dahlia parallel?

As for the age, well..."Happy 31st Birthday!"

[Kenji]

Notice Claudia is essentially a perfect Dahlia parallel?

Indeed.

Reinventing SH1 has become something of an art, as they tend to find rather interesting ways to do it. It's one of the reasons trying to find at least thematic connections is so interesting, because it requires a lot of out-of-box thinking on matters of theme and purpose rather than physical causes and effects.

It's pretty much impossible to draw a chronological chart that leads from Alessa Gillespie getting immolated to Cheryl Heather Mason stepping into Dr. K's office, but it's not impossible to draw a thematic connection between the two. Ultimately, this is how Shattered Memories connects with the main series and, really, it was the best way to do it. Simply adding more events to the already bloated Alessa story would've made my eyes roll out of my head (barring a truly killer execution), so this was probably the best and most interesting way they could've done it.

[Yuki]

Notice Claudia is essentially a perfect Dahlia parallel?

Indeed.

Reinventing SH1 has become something of an art, as they tend to find rather interesting ways to do it. It's one of the reasons trying to find at least thematic connections is so interesting, because it requires a lot of out-of-box thinking on matters of theme and purpose rather than physical causes and effects.

It's pretty much impossible to draw a chronological chart that leads from Alessa Gillespie getting immolated to Cheryl Heather Mason stepping into Dr. K's office, but it's not impossible to draw a thematic connection between the two. Ultimately, this is how Shattered Memories connects with the main series and, really, it was the best way to do it. Simply adding more events to the already bloated Alessa story would've made my eyes roll out of my head (barring a truly killer execution), so this was probably the best and most interesting way they could've done it.

I agree. Thematically there are definitely links, but if we tried to link it in the canon there's just too many problems with it, including Harry living in Silent Hill in SH:SM and Cheryl being his biological daughter in the same game.

[nicodemus]

I agree. Thematically there are definitely links, but if we tried to link it in the canon there's just too many problems with it, including Harry living in Silent Hill in SH:SM and Cheryl being his biological daughter in the same game.

but there's no reason you *should* try to connect them like that.

this game is about Cheryl's psychosis. it's not about whether or not Harry had a cellphone during SH1, and it's not about whether SH1 took place during the 80's or the 2000's.

it's about Cheryl *believing* that she's not adopted. it's about Cheryl *wanting* her Dad. it's about Cheryl running from and trying to deal with her traumatic life experiences, both in and out of SH.

what i take from this game as "factual," is that Cheryl Heather Mason had a psychotic break. that's about all i really know. it's a fair guess that she's also in counseling, but even that could be a representation.

everything else is a representation of her "shattered memories."