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 Post subject: new maria theory (spoilers)

heres a theory you may have not heard before-

The Maria you see from the beggining of the game to when she lies down in brookhaven is a real person, who just happens to be similar to Mary. Then when you leave "alternate" maria lures her away and pops up again and again to torment you. The Maria demon you fight in the Laura ending is "Fake" Maria,. once its dead you leave with laura, abandoning Maria in Silent Hill. maria could pop up in SH5 with a "fake" james as her tormentor, she wouldnt be the protag but a secondary character.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 13 Apr 2006
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Well.. the Maria known in the game is in fact based on a real dancer that works in Silent Hill, so in that way you can say she is real.

However, if you play the Born from a Wish scenario, it establishes from the beginning that Maria has no idea why she's there and what her purpose is. This lends evidence to her being a creation of James' desires for Mary (Born from a Wish, in fact!), and never a "real person" to begin with.


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 Post subject:

From the Book of Lost Memories:

raison d'etre

"Maria was produced by James' delusions as a result of his inability to bear the weight of the crime of Killing his wife.
It is established in the third game that her model was a dancer at the club Heavens Night."


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 16 Apr 2006
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There's a Laura ending?

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
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No.. The only ending that features Laura is called "Leave."

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sabre2922 wrote:
"Maria was produced by James' delusions as a result of his inability to bear the weight of the crime of Killing his wife.
It is established in the third game that her model was a dancer at the club Heavens Night."


That seems pretty possible but I got a question though, What about the Born from a wish scenario?
She seems to be very human to me... Personally, I'd say that she's a ghost just when you see her talk with Ernest it's pretty clear that he is a ghost and he seems to think the same about Maria... I might be wrong though...


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 08 Aug 2006
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I think that maybe Maria and the 'real' Mary represent two different sides of Mary while she was still alive. Maria presents a person that maybe James wanted Mary to be, but she couldn't because she was sick. So in the end those two sides become one. I'm not sure about this ,just my little theory.


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Historical Society Historian
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Quote:
She seems to be very human to me... Personally, I'd say that she's a ghost just when you see her talk with Ernest it's pretty clear that he is a ghost and he seems to think the same about Maria... I might be wrong though...


She seems human because she doesn't know what her purpose is, but she's not real. However, she eventually realizes her true nature, and becomes what James wants her to be. She was never real. Not as a person, not as a ghost, nothing.

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I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Brookhaven Receptionist
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It's true that she was real at some point, but they aren't the same people. In appearence, yes, but not the same face or purpose.

Maria is there- a physical manifestation, so she seems real, but she's composed of what James wanted Mary to be and what Mary wanted, in part, to be for James (thus why Maria also has Mary's memories).

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Historical Society Historian
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No, I don't think any part of Mary wanted to be anything like Maria. Maria's fun and sexual self-emphasis is symbolic of how James objectifies women and whatnot. Maria is basically Mary - Unwanted parts + fun fantasies = Maria.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
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AuraTwilight wrote:
No, I don't think any part of Mary wanted to be anything like Maria. Maria's fun and sexual self-emphasis is symbolic of how James objectifies women and whatnot. Maria is basically Mary - Unwanted parts + fun fantasies = Maria.


I disagree completely. James wasn't a chauvenist, and to believe he objectifies women throws his character into complete contrast with his behavior all throughout the game. To believe Maria is James' 'ideal' version of Mary would do the same. When he speaks of Mary, as he does often, it's always in a loving, near-reverential way, certainly not a trait exhibited by a shallow sexist. Conversely. every encounter between James and Maria shows James confused and decidedly uncomfortable. He never says "Wow, this is what I've always wanted!", it's always "Oh, damn, you're not Mary!"

Meanwhile, we have Mary, who is physically disfigured by her disease, and strongly feels that her ravaged looks are making James no longer love her. What better contrast than to look sexy and act sensual? Maria isn't everything James wanted Mary to be, she's everything Mary thought James wanted her to be.

Also, Maria has memories of Laura before she meets James, and obviously, those memories didn't come from James.

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Historical Society Historian
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I was under the impression that James, after mucking up his own memories, subconsciously changed his personality to be kinder and nicer and whatnot, but underneath that he's a sexist pig. o.o

I mean, even most of the monsters are symbolic of sexism and women objectification.

But in what instance does Maria ever demonstrate memories of Laura before they ever meet?

http://translatedmemories.com/bookpgs/P ... eature.jpg

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
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Then you were under incorrect impressions.

Even the SHC page you linked inferred only that James had repressed urges, which were pointedly described as 'natural' (and never expressly as 'sexual', for that matter). And, that's perfectly acceptable. Everyone has a sex drive, and James had to restrain his for several years. Of course, it isn't just sex. He's also been deprived of emotional stability. He hasn't just been denied a taste of the ol' poontang, he has been denied a normal, loving relationship with his wife, in every way. It's as much emotional as it is sexual.

The monsters appear to be sexual in nature because sex is raw, sex, in its element, is rough and physical. The softer edges and emotional attachments we apply are inherent only to ourselves. Removed, sex is a pretty straightforward activity, and that's what is responsible for what we see in the monsters. It's not at all because James is a sexist pig, reformed or otherwise. He never shows the slightest inclination of such thinking or behavior. I've already outlined that his personality is very much in conflict with the average chauvenist.

To answer your other question, it happens in the Born From a Wish scenario, when Maria examines objects, specifically, a teddy bear, in Amy Baldwin's bedroom.

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Brookhaven Receptionist
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AuraTwilight wrote:
I was under the impression that James, after mucking up his own memories, subconsciously changed his personality to be kinder and nicer and whatnot, but underneath that he's a sexist pig. o.o

In addition, such a transition would not happen so suddenly- or subconsciously for that matter, as far as I know.
If you wanted to hide the fact that you're a sexist pig, you'd be consciously aware that you're trying to change.
Besides, there's nothing that outright suggests that he was that way to begin with.

Ah, don't mean to gang up on you here or anything, but it supports the point.

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Historical Society Historian
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AuraTwilight wrote:
I was under the impression that James, after mucking up his own memories, subconsciously changed his personality to be kinder and nicer and whatnot, but underneath that he's a sexist pig. o.o

I mean, even most of the monsters are symbolic of sexism and women objectification.

But in what instance does Maria ever demonstrate memories of Laura before they ever meet?

http://silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1235


Fixed.

[I really wish people would stop using Translated Memories for anything and everything. Really. It'd be like the ultimate Christmas for me if this happened.]

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Historical Society Historian
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Well then I was wrong. Thank y'all for correcting me ^^

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Just Passing Through
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Krist. wrote:
I really wish people would stop using Translated Memories for anything and everything. Really. It'd be like the ultimate Christmas for me if this happened.]


What's wrong with Translated Memories? I always considered it canon, being from Konami. Or do you just mean the translation itself?


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Historical Society Historian
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Because it's contradictory in several places.

Example: One part establishes Good as Silent Hill 1's canon ending. Elsewhere in the tome, a statement is made to the effect of "Cybil's fate is left up to you". If Good is the canon ending, then Cybil's fate is not in question; she's dead.

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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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alone in the town wrote:

The monsters appear to be sexual in nature because sex is raw, sex, in its element, is rough and physical. The softer edges and emotional attachments we apply are inherent only to ourselves. Removed, sex is a pretty straightforward activity, and that's what is responsible for what we see in the monsters.



Very well put! I was going to attempt to word it, but you took what I was going to say and made it 134% better.

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Just Passing Through
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idk hmm i still think she was a manifestation of what james wanted mary to be and due to the illness she never could be as said before but when she (maria) always died was it a punishment for his crime but if you think about it when the PH's kill her could that be showing james evil side or the ph's be a manifestation of it and also be showing him and punishing him for what he did? sorry for getting off subject

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