James a Drunk? (Unmarked Spoiler)

[NeoAquarius12]

Well, let's be honest... there's your good alcoholics and there's your bad alcoholics.

Example of a good one: "What's up bro! Haven't seen you in a while. We should totally spend more time together... I have all of this beer that needs to be drinken, and you look thirsty. You, you, you, you wanna be my pong partner later? I am... I'm better when I am drunk, so let's do this. Then later on, we'll see if we can find you a biddie to chat up, eh?"

Example of a bad one: "Who the f*** turned on this god damn crappy music!? Is this the 4th grade? If someone doesn't change it, I am going to flip some s*** in here. NOT JOKING. Where the f*** is my food??? I ordered it about 15 minutes ago... if it's one of those god damn foregners taking forever, I am literally going to knock them out. DON'T TOUCH ME, just where is the hard liquor. Oh, you're not drinking anymore? What's wrong p*****. F*** you man, you're just a P*****!"

And each one of those examples are real people I know in a shortened dialogue form.

Now, I don't think there are any real implications that James is an alcoholic... there is only speculation at this point. But it would surprise me based on Mary's Letter.

[SHF]

James visiting Heaven's Night isn't implied in the game or Lost Memories: Silent Hill Chronicle. It's theorized he went, though.

Everywhere else James visits seems to have some significance to him, and Maria was born in a strip club. Unless Mary went to them...

It might just be a metaphor for sexual frustration. Not an indication of his actions.

Whereas alchoholism is sort of implied as you see bottles of booze pretty much everywhere. However, I don't think James was a drunk, or they would have appeared in the Abyss too.

Whether he was a drunk or not is up for debate, but james himself admits that he drank a fair amount.
He comments on all the booze in heavens night.

[Otherworldly]

Maybe he was drunk when he killed Mary, and maybe that's why he has a hard time coping with what he did. Maybe drinking mixed with her being a "burden" just overcame him and he killed her. That's a very interesting possibility, in my opinion. I never put two and two together until I got to thinking about James drinking.

[PoemOfTheLastMoment]

There's no evidence of that in the game. All we know for sure is that he drank alcohol to numb the pain of losing his wife and watching his wife slowly wither away into a husk of her former self. He also says that the drinking never changed anything. The 'There was a hole here.its gone now' message at Bar Neely's is a reference to his drinking problem.

[The Adversary]

>The 'There was a hole here.its gone now' message at Bar Neely's is a reference to his drinking problem.<
"There's no evidence of that in the game."

[PoemOfTheLastMoment]

>The 'There was a hole here.its gone now' message at Bar Neely's is a reference to his drinking problem.<
"There's no evidence of that in the game."

Arent bars called 'watering holes'? and isnt 'Bar Neely' a bar?

Doesnt the message read: 'There was a 'HOLE' here. It gone now.'

Doesnt James express the notion that he drinks a fair bit (to get away from the pain, exclaiming that it never changes anything) at Heavens Night when pointing towards a stack of alcoholic drinks ?

If you're asking me if there's any instance in the game where James says "I drink a lot to get over my wife's ailing health but it never helps. Gee,i just entered a bar that's closed for some reason with a GIANT message on the window telling me that there was a HOLE here and its gone now. I wonder what on earth that could mean?" Then no. there's no such evidence in the game.


http://www.silenthillforum.com/viewtopi ... es#p600071

We had this discussion nearly 2 years ago and strangely enough, you were the one that agreed with me on the matter.

[The Adversary]

That doesn't mean the bar itself is a reference to his drinking problem. Now, if James were to say he "drinks a fair bit" at Bar Neely's, then, yes, that would mean the bar is a reference to his drinking problem (although we can't say for sure he actually has a drinking problem in the medical sense).

If anything, according to your suggestion, the message—There was a hole here, it's gone now—suggests he doesn't have a drinking problem, at least not any longer. Perhaps, then, if that's the case, he stopped drinking after killing his wife during a blackout drunk binge. That would explain why "it's gone now": He drank to forget the pain, and in order to forget the pain he had to remove the pain, and to him the pain was his wife. With her gone, the pain is gone. And, ultimately, the "problem."

I'm even more convinced he was drunk when he killed Mary.

[PoemOfTheLastMoment]

If anything, according to your suggestion, the message—There was a hole here, it's gone now—suggests he doesn't have a drinking problem, at least not any longer. Perhaps, then, if that's the case, he stopped drinking after killing his wife during a blackout drunk binge. That would explain why "it's gone now": He drank to forget the pain, and in order to forget the pain he had to remove the pain, and to him the pain was his wife. With her gone, the pain is gone. And, ultimately, the "problem."

I'm even more convinced he was drunk when he killed Mary.

What i'm saying is that the town is showing James the fact that he wont use drinking as a means of escape. That he wont be allowed to run away from his problems and what he's done. that he has to see this journey through to the end.

[Squarehead]

Not once have I witnessed any of my alcoholic friends lift a chainsaw above their head and scream.

And they have the nerve to call themselves alcoholics? Rookies.

[ella-guru]

I wonder if he was drunk when he killed his wife

Wow. I didn't even think of that and now it makes sense! James does not strike me as a person capable of killing someone unless he had a good dose of liquid courage.

[alone in the town]

That his taste for alcohol is a fact learned only in a single, obscure clue tells me that alcohol was not part of the deed. If it was, it would surely be given more attention than that. Football is given more importance for Eddie than alcohol is for James.

[Glenn]

There are two references of the football player with Eddie (during the Woodside Apartments and before the boss battle). Only one more reference to that than to James' drinking problem. And yeah its a problem to drink away your issues even if your wife is constantly bitching and on the death bed.

I think some people still view James as this pure person who isn't as bad as say Eddie. The fact of the matter is that he quickly loses his temper (a couple times with Laura), he had an alcohol issue, dementia, delusions, and he killed his wife in a moment of viscous rage (even if she said she wanted to die, she certainly didn't want to when she did).

[alone in the town]

We don't know what James' state of mind was when he killed Mary.

The point of comparing it to Eddie and football was that football is related to Eddie but does not form any significan part of his character. Yet, it is mentioned more frequently than James' alcohol problem, leading me to believe that his drinking and his killing of Mary may not be related.

[Glenn]

We don't know what James' state of mind was when he killed Mary.

I think we do. From the video tape, we can tell that Mary is struggling and didn't expect to die during that time period, and suffocation by a pillow is a pretty lousy way to euthanize someone. My interpretation is that he couldn't take it anymore and killed her in a moment of rage. Maybe he wasn't drunk when he did it, but he "solved" his problems by possibly drinking. He put the pillow over her, and was determined to kill her no matter what. If he was sane during that time he wouldn't have been able to do it, and maybe the two of them could have discussed a better way of euthanasia.

[alone in the town]

James calmly kisses her on the forehead before he smothers her. That sounds somewhat incompatible with the idea of him being in a furious rage.

[Rev]

Clearly it was a kiss of furious rage.

For the record, yes I am joking.

[R08813]

he quickly loses his temper (a couple times with Laura)

In their first encounter Laura stepped on James' hand and made him take extra risks to be able to get the key. In their second and third encounter, Laura simply ignored James and ran away. In their fourth encounter Laura locked James in a room of monsters and put his life at risk. Granted, Laura doesn't see monsters and wasn't aware of the danger she was putting him into. But from James' viewpoint, he merely saw a spoiled child who repeatedly put him into danger. If there's anything to blame, it would be Laura's behaviour.

I fail to see how simple lines like 'Why can't you just tell me?' and 'You liar' make James a bad person anyway.

he had an alcohol issue

He admitted that he drinks a fair bit, so? I hope you're not suggesting a fair bit of drinking is socially unacceptable.

dementia

First, how does dementia make James or anyone for that matter in any way a bad person? Second,

I thought my father and brother were here, but I can't find them either...

Based on what Angela said to James in their first encounter, it is very likely that she also forgets her killing. Also, James was very much aware of his purpose of visiting Silent Hill before he arrived. I like to think their memory loss has something to do with the power of Silent Hill.

delusions

Angela also becomes delusional because of Silent Hill. Hell, it is even possible that Laura sees a manifestation of Mary in the Leave Ending. Does that make Laura a bad person too?

and he killed his wife in a moment of viscous rage (even if she said she wanted to die, she certainly didn't want to when she did).

First, we know for a fact that even if the killing didn't happen, Mary wasn't going to live long. If James really hated Mary, it would be most logical for him to wait for her to die instead of killing her and putting the rest of his life at risk. Tell me, if James' only motive was to get rid of Mary, why would he even bother taking the risk? Second, I agree with Ryan that, it is difficult to believe he killed her in a 'moment of viscous rage' after seeing the videotape. Third, I don't see how you could say with certainty that Mary didn't want to die. Fourth, I believe it is entirely possible for a suicidal person to show signs of struggle during their death.

Now I am not suggesting James is perfectly righteous/holy/clean/pure/however you want to call him. I have no good explanation for his inaction all those years when Mary was hospitalised. I am, however, saying that James is in no way as bad as your interpretation.

My interpretation is that he couldn't take it anymore and killed her in a moment of rage.

Mind you. This is only your interpretation.

For the record, there's nothing personal in this entire post so don't take it the wrong way.

[alone in the town]

Fourth, I believe it is entirely possible for a suicidal person to show signs of struggle during their death.

I think her struggling was due to two factors: he took her by surprise, and the body instinctively struggles against suffocation, hence why you can't do it simply by holding your breath.

[FrankRD]

I thought my father and brother were here, but I can't find them either...

Based on what Angela said to James in their first encounter, it is very likely that she also forgets her killing. Also, James was very much aware of his purpose of visiting Silent Hill before he arrived. I like to think their memory loss has something to do with the power of Silent Hill.

The fact that James was already in the Fog World before entering Silent Hill would go against this theory of mine, but I don't think it was Silent Hill that forced him to repress the memory of him killing her, because even before going to Silent Hill he clearly believes the disease is what finished her.

[alone in the town]

I thought my father and brother were here, but I can't find them either...

Based on what Angela said to James in their first encounter, it is very likely that she also forgets her killing. Also, James was very much aware of his purpose of visiting Silent Hill before he arrived. I like to think their memory loss has something to do with the power of Silent Hill.

The fact that James was already in the Fog World before entering Silent Hill would go against this theory of mine, but I don't think it was Silent Hill that forced him to repress the memory of him killing her, because even before going to Silent Hill he clearly believes the disease is what finished her.

Ah, but we do not know when James enters the fog world, do we? Nor do we know when he invents his new version of events.

I agree with R08813 and I believe that the power of the town is what galvanizes him to both sequester his memories away from conscious recall and to invent the 'three years ago' lie. I believe he enters the otherworld, and has his feat of mental whitewashing, the moment we first see him. We know that his original purpose in coming to town was to end his own life, which would not require him to forget what he did or make up lies about it.