Pyramid Head and Maria: James' mind at war with itself.
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[quote="alone in the town"]
2. Perception: Even though they are serving to show James the path to vanquishing his delusion, he does not realize this until the very end. Until then, he most likely believes that the Pyramid Heads are nothing but mindless tormentors. quote]
Fucking right on!! Finally someone who truly understands the game
2. Perception: Even though they are serving to show James the path to vanquishing his delusion, he does not realize this until the very end. Until then, he most likely believes that the Pyramid Heads are nothing but mindless tormentors. quote]
Fucking right on!! Finally someone who truly understands the game
- emptimass
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Tormenting for the puropse of Salvation from ones delusional reality.
Anyone can argue but honestly if think of it this way then the acts of
torment were meer tools to achieve the ultimate goal. Salvation.
With this would that not make salvation the superior motive?
Anyone can argue but honestly if think of it this way then the acts of
torment were meer tools to achieve the ultimate goal. Salvation.
With this would that not make salvation the superior motive?
"No more soul to sell, 31 years and on my way to Hell".
common.
i guess this is a misconception among many people [le pyramid head theory]
while i don't subscribe to only one theory about him, simply because i didn't create it, most avid players of silent hill would agree with this.
i've heard a bunch of people say stuff like what you're saying, and i will agree that it's a really fucking intelligent, um, analysis of le pyramid.
in this sense of pyramid head, he's sort of like james' babysitter
but i never really like james. what a whiney emu bitchhh.
i've always loved pyramid head.
bcs he PWNZ all n00bz lolz.
while i don't subscribe to only one theory about him, simply because i didn't create it, most avid players of silent hill would agree with this.
i've heard a bunch of people say stuff like what you're saying, and i will agree that it's a really fucking intelligent, um, analysis of le pyramid.
in this sense of pyramid head, he's sort of like james' babysitter
but i never really like james. what a whiney emu bitchhh.
i've always loved pyramid head.
bcs he PWNZ all n00bz lolz.
Nice theory. For the most part I agree, because it's kind of a given if you think about it from a certain perspective. Ultimately, if James is to survive Silent Hill and find out the truth, he's going to have to overcome his guilt and other desires and figure out just who he is.
I always thought of PH as James' guilt. He represents that James isn't just a cold-blooded-wife-killer, but that he's really just a messed up guy who carries his pain much like that great knife Pyramid Head drags behind him.
In the end, like PH, James used all of his pain and anguish as a weapon to kill Mary, then he buried it all, to the point where it only returned at a subconscious level. Only Silent Hill could physically (or mentally manifest in James' SH reality) the pain and guilt he felt. And in that, PH constantly executes Maria. It's the reason why.
Not only this, but to me, the fact that not only does PH show James what he did through the symbolism of Maria's numerous deaths, but through nearly killing James many times throughout the game as well. To me, this represents James' wish for self-inflicted physical pain and near-death experiences. The murders of Maria are an emotional sorrow that James has to bear through the game. I think on the flipside of this, PH nearly killing James or the threat of killing James so many times, is a form of James' subconscious need for physical punishment to the point of fighting for his life...Hell, all of the monsters are, now that I think of it. This only proves that James is indeed a guy who cares about life and other people, especially Mary, but also that James may have had an Angela complex when dealing with guilt and pain.
AiiT...I don't necessarily think that PH is James' savior, because in order for James to learn and possibly understand what he's done, he has to face PH as an adversary. But he is a part of James that James can't contain. He represents rape and murder, because James subconsciously identified with the executioners of the past. But to James, PH also represents it all in the way of an obstacle, that a person has to escape from in order to live. A part of himself, the selfish part, that ultimately he has to accept.
And when the two PH's kill themselves in the end, to me that also represents, I guess, the cycle that pain and guilt creates within a person, or just within all of the human race as well, etc. All of the "sins" of mankind, and the hate and murder, everything, just begets itself. The destroyer destroys himself etc. (heee) Once that happened in the hotel, James was able to leave the room and move on. He was given two eggs to symbolize beginning anew.
Er...anyway, I do think that ultimately PH is good for James, because without him, and all of the other monsters representing the gruesome truth surround James' story, James would never learn to overcome what he's done and move on with his life.
Angela couldn't overcome her guilt, it's why she took back her knife and climbed that stairway. She was ultimately her own worst enemy. That's why I think that James, aside from trying to save Angela, asks for the knife. In taking it and carrying it around (which strikes a chord with me in PH dragging his knife around) Since PH is a part of James, if PH kills James, James has succumbed to his inner desire for death, just like Angela.
But anyway, through PH, especially in the last PH boss fight, James was able to confront his guilt and pain and come to some sort of conclusion about his life. In that moment, he was able to break from his denial and figure out what it would take to become whole again.
So basically, if you believe James is a dumbass and a cold blooded murderer, PH proves this isn't true, because a killer is someone without a conscience...James isn't a psychopath, because in his own twisted way, the reality created within Silent Hill that James sees shows that he has emotions and feelings about what he did.
Do I think that having a tormenter and executioner for the sake of having to learn something is good for a person? No, I don't really look at the world that way...People who are assholes and give the explanation for being so "that's the way the world works" are perpetrating uh...assholism. I don't think that you have to have pain to learn something...But in James' case, the pain wasn't going to go away until he dealt with it. PH's presence was the only recourse left. It was his last chance, because he had dealt with that pain in the first place by being an asshole and killing his dying wife instead of finding some other way.
Thus, yeah, self-punishment.
Onto a couple more things:
I always thought of PH as James' guilt. He represents that James isn't just a cold-blooded-wife-killer, but that he's really just a messed up guy who carries his pain much like that great knife Pyramid Head drags behind him.
In the end, like PH, James used all of his pain and anguish as a weapon to kill Mary, then he buried it all, to the point where it only returned at a subconscious level. Only Silent Hill could physically (or mentally manifest in James' SH reality) the pain and guilt he felt. And in that, PH constantly executes Maria. It's the reason why.
Not only this, but to me, the fact that not only does PH show James what he did through the symbolism of Maria's numerous deaths, but through nearly killing James many times throughout the game as well. To me, this represents James' wish for self-inflicted physical pain and near-death experiences. The murders of Maria are an emotional sorrow that James has to bear through the game. I think on the flipside of this, PH nearly killing James or the threat of killing James so many times, is a form of James' subconscious need for physical punishment to the point of fighting for his life...Hell, all of the monsters are, now that I think of it. This only proves that James is indeed a guy who cares about life and other people, especially Mary, but also that James may have had an Angela complex when dealing with guilt and pain.
AiiT...I don't necessarily think that PH is James' savior, because in order for James to learn and possibly understand what he's done, he has to face PH as an adversary. But he is a part of James that James can't contain. He represents rape and murder, because James subconsciously identified with the executioners of the past. But to James, PH also represents it all in the way of an obstacle, that a person has to escape from in order to live. A part of himself, the selfish part, that ultimately he has to accept.
And when the two PH's kill themselves in the end, to me that also represents, I guess, the cycle that pain and guilt creates within a person, or just within all of the human race as well, etc. All of the "sins" of mankind, and the hate and murder, everything, just begets itself. The destroyer destroys himself etc. (heee) Once that happened in the hotel, James was able to leave the room and move on. He was given two eggs to symbolize beginning anew.
Er...anyway, I do think that ultimately PH is good for James, because without him, and all of the other monsters representing the gruesome truth surround James' story, James would never learn to overcome what he's done and move on with his life.
Angela couldn't overcome her guilt, it's why she took back her knife and climbed that stairway. She was ultimately her own worst enemy. That's why I think that James, aside from trying to save Angela, asks for the knife. In taking it and carrying it around (which strikes a chord with me in PH dragging his knife around) Since PH is a part of James, if PH kills James, James has succumbed to his inner desire for death, just like Angela.
But anyway, through PH, especially in the last PH boss fight, James was able to confront his guilt and pain and come to some sort of conclusion about his life. In that moment, he was able to break from his denial and figure out what it would take to become whole again.
So basically, if you believe James is a dumbass and a cold blooded murderer, PH proves this isn't true, because a killer is someone without a conscience...James isn't a psychopath, because in his own twisted way, the reality created within Silent Hill that James sees shows that he has emotions and feelings about what he did.
Do I think that having a tormenter and executioner for the sake of having to learn something is good for a person? No, I don't really look at the world that way...People who are assholes and give the explanation for being so "that's the way the world works" are perpetrating uh...assholism. I don't think that you have to have pain to learn something...But in James' case, the pain wasn't going to go away until he dealt with it. PH's presence was the only recourse left. It was his last chance, because he had dealt with that pain in the first place by being an asshole and killing his dying wife instead of finding some other way.
Thus, yeah, self-punishment.
Onto a couple more things:
Well, on the flipside of that, I think that PH is deadly and dangerous, he can kill you quickly and he will if you aren't careful, or if you get too close. That is symbolism to me. It means that a part of James, a part that dwells in the guilt and hurt, etc...Wants to end his life...But not only that, it represents to me that if James follows Pyramid downstairs too closely (into the water) in the apartments, well, James' not really "thinking things through" and he gets what he deserves... And if he goes into areas where he has no business (like the labyrinth room) and picks up the great knife, he's going to have to face PH and death to get it. I think PH guards it for a reason, because of what it represents. It's almost as if PH is telling James to "stop identifying with me, dumbass"In the apartments, he gets quite brutal but he gives up rather quickly. In the Labyrinth, he appears twice. In one instance, you can pass him by without even seeing him. In the other, where he has his Great Knife, he stalks around in a circle, perhaps to keep you away from his belongings and keep you going the way you're supposed to.
I'm not exactly sure if I agree with this on only one point, and it's that the loose fencing is the only thing that really saves James there. Whether or not PH was out to kill him (because James was lingering too close to thoughts of suicide and death) can be speculated...But we don't really know whether James would have gotten away that time...lucky him? I think there's a metaphor in this, in where James lands, how he manages to escape, but I've gone on a bit too long this time I think :JEven when he knocks James off the roof, it's quite clear that he's pulling his punches
No one wins...It's a war of man.
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- Gravedigger
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SPOILERS (duh!) and speculation:
I don't believe they'd show a picture of two pyramidheads executing someone and have James call him a punisher at the moment of his illumination if they didn't think that he was one. I'm not exactly sure for what he was punishing him though. Here's just a few possibilities:
Obviously James has blocked away killing his wife from his rational consciousness, but perhaps on some level he was aware that running away with Maria was lying and he needed to be punished (hence Maria dies) for escaping his guilt.
Or perhaps he felt that leaving with Maria was not only infidelity, but also would have made him question his motives when he killed his wife: did i kill him to take his pain away or to free myself for another woman? Perhaps when James said he didn't need to be punished anymore meant that he realized he had actually killed his wife out of unselfish reasons and thus didn't need to be punished. Then again, perhaps not.
Who knows, there are a pillion different explanations for everything that happens in this game, a lot of them that can coexist peacefully with each other. I do agree with most of what the guy who started this thread said, i just think you shouldn't be so rigid as to say "PH a savior so PH not a punisher!"
Obviously James has blocked away killing his wife from his rational consciousness, but perhaps on some level he was aware that running away with Maria was lying and he needed to be punished (hence Maria dies) for escaping his guilt.
Or perhaps he felt that leaving with Maria was not only infidelity, but also would have made him question his motives when he killed his wife: did i kill him to take his pain away or to free myself for another woman? Perhaps when James said he didn't need to be punished anymore meant that he realized he had actually killed his wife out of unselfish reasons and thus didn't need to be punished. Then again, perhaps not.
I agree that this is very possible.Chaz D wrote:...the pyramid heads ARE a servant of a higher power - that higher power being James will.
Who knows, there are a pillion different explanations for everything that happens in this game, a lot of them that can coexist peacefully with each other. I do agree with most of what the guy who started this thread said, i just think you shouldn't be so rigid as to say "PH a savior so PH not a punisher!"
I can't believe i earned 10 Silent Hill cash for this.
- alone in the town
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Pyramid Head is most definitely a punisher. His actions throughout the game make that perfectly clear. What I'm saying is that the punishment is for a reason, and the point of this is that most people think Pyramid Head punishes just for the sake of punishment, and I disagree with that. I think the punishment is for a deliberate reason, and that it ultimately serves as a lesson, along with the repeated displays of Maria being killed. Often, Pyramid Head inflicts pain on James when he goes places he should not go (various parts of the Labyrinth), or his attacks serve a hidden benefit (knocking James off of the roof and into a place he could not otherwise access).
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- lain of the wired
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Great idea. Much more interesting than the one-dimensional idea of him as mere executioner.
Also: People, kindly do read threads before posting things. To post something based only on reading the title is silly and often turns into little more than spam.
I don't think she's aware of her role, really. She's what's known as a "defense," or a "comfort zone". For those who don't know what that means, it's a psychological protective device that a person retreats to when reality becomes too harsh. It's an easy-out that makes it possible to avoid the actual conflict at hand. That's why she's so "manipulative"- it's James' own mind finding ways to hide from reality, manifested in Maria. That way, it's an outside force that's keeping him from his goal, and he doesn't feel like there's a part of himself that's reluctant to see reality. This is another defense, btw- to project the blocking force keeping one from achieving one's goals onto an outside force, leaving the individual a helpless victim.alone in the town wrote:No, I don't think Maria is really aware of what she is, and, as the title states, she IS born from a wish. But, she is aware of her role, to a degree. Her behavior in the final encounter proves that.
Also: People, kindly do read threads before posting things. To post something based only on reading the title is silly and often turns into little more than spam.
You'll be missed. You were missed. I am missing you.
Alone in the Town, was it you who I debated with about the town punishing and what not?
Good times.
I dont agree with him being a 'saviour', I still think he's there as a malovolent force - no matter who helpful the outcome of his raping and pillaging is - but I think your different 'angle/perspective' on it is very interesting.
Well done.
I do think, however that Pyramid Head is there to be overcome (When James accepts his guilt, or whatever), which I guess is partially contradictory to the "He's a bad man" thing.
In Born from a Wish, she ends deciding she has to find/help James (or so I remember. I've only listened to it on Audio, and that was some time ago...)
Because of this, I cant see Maria being the negative force - once again, despite what shes doing to James with her mere presence (tempting him, etc.), she dosnt mean to.
Good times.
I dont agree with him being a 'saviour', I still think he's there as a malovolent force - no matter who helpful the outcome of his raping and pillaging is - but I think your different 'angle/perspective' on it is very interesting.
Well done.
I do think, however that Pyramid Head is there to be overcome (When James accepts his guilt, or whatever), which I guess is partially contradictory to the "He's a bad man" thing.
Exactly my view.I don't think she's aware of her role, really
In Born from a Wish, she ends deciding she has to find/help James (or so I remember. I've only listened to it on Audio, and that was some time ago...)
Because of this, I cant see Maria being the negative force - once again, despite what shes doing to James with her mere presence (tempting him, etc.), she dosnt mean to.
Seeing repeatedly damaged psychologically, and kept alive, is a worse punishment then being out-right killed, wouldnt you say?I totally agree with this theory. I never really saw how PH could have been a punisher because he would have just killed james in the beginning without much thought.
- ValtielInvoked
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Pure genius...
I will admit this post really opens my eyes to a whole other dimension of thinking when it comes to PH. Rather than punishing simply for the sake of punishing he is actually aiding James in conquering a threat.
Almost like Maria was manifested to confuse James,where as PH was manifested to show James the truth.
VERY interesting,I'm definately going to spend some time thinking about this.
I will admit this post really opens my eyes to a whole other dimension of thinking when it comes to PH. Rather than punishing simply for the sake of punishing he is actually aiding James in conquering a threat.
Almost like Maria was manifested to confuse James,where as PH was manifested to show James the truth.
VERY interesting,I'm definately going to spend some time thinking about this.
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- .-Ape-Demon-.
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I may be repeating what has already been stated, but I digress, it is how I always felt.
I always felt that Pyramid Head represented more than just an executioner of the towns past. I thought that if Maria was a representation of Jame's desire, then Pyramid Head was a representation of his concense. An embodyment of the 'angel on his shoulder' that was giving him dark signs that everything was un-well with what he had done, and that what he was doing then was wrong and would only result in pain, physical or psychological. PH is like a Fire and Brimstone preacher or a Drill Seargent. He gives James reminders of his sins and tests of endurance that, should he fail, indicate he is not worthy of the salvation of his soul.
The odd things about the monsters of most Silent Hill games is that they, technicaly, are the good guys. In SH1,
In SH2
And in SH3
I am not sure of their pourpouse in SH4.
Again, I apologize if this is all repeat.
I always felt that Pyramid Head represented more than just an executioner of the towns past. I thought that if Maria was a representation of Jame's desire, then Pyramid Head was a representation of his concense. An embodyment of the 'angel on his shoulder' that was giving him dark signs that everything was un-well with what he had done, and that what he was doing then was wrong and would only result in pain, physical or psychological. PH is like a Fire and Brimstone preacher or a Drill Seargent. He gives James reminders of his sins and tests of endurance that, should he fail, indicate he is not worthy of the salvation of his soul.
The odd things about the monsters of most Silent Hill games is that they, technicaly, are the good guys. In SH1,
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
They try to stop Harry, in order to stop Dhalia from stopping Alessa to kill herself and her evil fetus.
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
They are there to remind James of his crimes and repressed dark urges, which will lead him to damnation or salvation.
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
They are (mostly) there to kill Heather, and stop the birthing of the god in her womb.
Again, I apologize if this is all repeat.
"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth. "
-Marcus Aurelius
"Abraham Lincon was born in a log cabin which he built with his own hands"
-Anonymous College Student.
"If the crib is on fire, you don't assume the baby is flame retardant."
-Al Gore
-Marcus Aurelius
"Abraham Lincon was born in a log cabin which he built with his own hands"
-Anonymous College Student.
"If the crib is on fire, you don't assume the baby is flame retardant."
-Al Gore
They serve as sacrifices made to nurse the God, not to stop it (the cult members, at least)..-Ape-Demon-. wrote:SH3
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:They are (mostly) there to kill Heather, and stop the birthing of the god in her womb.
- AuraTwilight
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I agree with the Bad Rap Theory. It's been my personal theory since before this thread was posted ^^ But you said it better than I ever could.
I am not sure of their pourpouse in SH4.
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
To kill people and help promote the 21 Sacraments.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
- .-Ape-Demon-.
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That is why I put a mostly in there. Whilst some of the monsters (for instance, scrappers, Leonard) are there to nurse the god, others are 'working' for Alessa's subconsious to kill heather, including Alessa's Memmory.B5160-R wrote:They serve as sacrifices made to nurse the God, not to stop it (the cult members, at least)..-Ape-Demon-. wrote:SH3
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:They are (mostly) there to kill Heather, and stop the birthing of the god in her womb.
I apologize if I still get that messed up and for not elaborating.
"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth. "
-Marcus Aurelius
"Abraham Lincon was born in a log cabin which he built with his own hands"
-Anonymous College Student.
"If the crib is on fire, you don't assume the baby is flame retardant."
-Al Gore
-Marcus Aurelius
"Abraham Lincon was born in a log cabin which he built with his own hands"
-Anonymous College Student.
"If the crib is on fire, you don't assume the baby is flame retardant."
-Al Gore
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