Pyramid Head and Maria: James' mind at war with itself.
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well ryan we all know ive been questing to have your babies for quite some time so ima jump on this bandwaggon while i have the chance
naw man i never looked at ph that way!! thats made me NOW look at things a little differently!! i may just go back throo the game just to recap and look at the whole thing differently now thanks bro for a fantastic theory
naw man i never looked at ph that way!! thats made me NOW look at things a little differently!! i may just go back throo the game just to recap and look at the whole thing differently now thanks bro for a fantastic theory
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Nice theory there Alone aka in aka the aka town.
I don't entirely agree though.I think Maria is abit misunderstood as well. I don't think she's "trying" to torment James.If you play "Born from a wish" scenerio you see Maria wakes up, not sure who she is or her purpose. I think the town kinda uses her to torment James. It uses both Pyramid Head and Maria to wake James of his delusion. Maria seems to show true love for James. I think she wants to be with him, no matter what. I do agree that Phead isn't just after James to punish him, but to show him the light, Maria I believe, is also there for the same reason. She is used, by the town, to awaken him.
I don't entirely agree though.I think Maria is abit misunderstood as well. I don't think she's "trying" to torment James.If you play "Born from a wish" scenerio you see Maria wakes up, not sure who she is or her purpose. I think the town kinda uses her to torment James. It uses both Pyramid Head and Maria to wake James of his delusion. Maria seems to show true love for James. I think she wants to be with him, no matter what. I do agree that Phead isn't just after James to punish him, but to show him the light, Maria I believe, is also there for the same reason. She is used, by the town, to awaken him.
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And I counter-disagree. Maria shows no real love for James. All she does is confuse and antagonize him, then soothes him enough to stay endearing. She's manipulating him every step of the way. She doesn't start out realizing this, but that is her goal, and she pursues it every time the two converse.
Remember, to follow Maria is to relive the nightmare.
Remember, to follow Maria is to relive the nightmare.
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Yeah, but she doesn't seem to be aware of any of this.Wheather she cares for James can be disputed I guess, but what about Laura? She seems very upset at the thought of her getting hurt. If she was a cold hearted demon she probably would try to direct James away from her, dont ya think? I think many things through out the game hint at her not being evil....on purpose.
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No, I don't think Maria is really aware of what she is, and, as the title states, she IS born from a wish. But, she is aware of her role, to a degree. Her behavior in the final encounter proves that.Chris Sunderland wrote:Yeah, but she doesn't seem to be aware of any of this.Wheather she cares for James can be disputed I guess, but what about Laura? She seems very upset at the thought of her getting hurt. If she was a cold hearted demon she probably would try to direct James away from her, dont ya think? I think many things through out the game hint at her not being evil....on purpose.
Maria does send him after Laura, but this does distract him from his search for Mary....
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You know, I've been thinking about this theory over the last two days, and it actually may cause me to look at the game differently than I have before.
Unmarked spoilers from here on, folks.
I think what struck me most is the idea that Pyramid Head really does not want to kill James, but to deliver him to the truth. When I began to think about the game, I realized how well this idea works. The only time that Pyramid Head will actually kill James is if James gives up fighting. We know that James cannot really harm or kill Pyramid Head, so he could take James's life at any time. Think about how vulnerable James is during the rape scene. He's effectively given himself no escape, but since he fires some shots at him, Pyramid Head leaves him alone. Since James can only be killed if he gives up fighting (shooting, running, etc.), then it could be seen as him giving up his will to live. If he wants to die, then there is no need for him to realize his crime, and Pyramid Head finishes him off.
I know there has been discussion before about who James refers to at the end when he says, "I don't need you anymore," at the end. I guess it makes sense that he's referring to both PH and Maria. He doesn't need PH to show him the truth, because he's now accepted it. He doesn't need Maria anymore for the same reason. The only exception here, I think, would be in the case of the Maria ending, where he would only be referring to PH.
The way this changes the way I view the game is that I've always considered the In Water ending the most likely one. If I believe that James's will to live is what keeps him safe from PH, then I can no longer believe that James would take his life at the end of the game. And, considering the other endings, that leaves me thinking that Rebirth is, in fact, the most likely ending.
I still don't like the idea of James reviving Mary, but it seems more likely than leaving with Laura (who would hate James for killing Mary) or the Maria ending (which makes the entire journey pointless).
Thanks for getting me thinking, alone in the town.
Unmarked spoilers from here on, folks.
I think what struck me most is the idea that Pyramid Head really does not want to kill James, but to deliver him to the truth. When I began to think about the game, I realized how well this idea works. The only time that Pyramid Head will actually kill James is if James gives up fighting. We know that James cannot really harm or kill Pyramid Head, so he could take James's life at any time. Think about how vulnerable James is during the rape scene. He's effectively given himself no escape, but since he fires some shots at him, Pyramid Head leaves him alone. Since James can only be killed if he gives up fighting (shooting, running, etc.), then it could be seen as him giving up his will to live. If he wants to die, then there is no need for him to realize his crime, and Pyramid Head finishes him off.
I know there has been discussion before about who James refers to at the end when he says, "I don't need you anymore," at the end. I guess it makes sense that he's referring to both PH and Maria. He doesn't need PH to show him the truth, because he's now accepted it. He doesn't need Maria anymore for the same reason. The only exception here, I think, would be in the case of the Maria ending, where he would only be referring to PH.
The way this changes the way I view the game is that I've always considered the In Water ending the most likely one. If I believe that James's will to live is what keeps him safe from PH, then I can no longer believe that James would take his life at the end of the game. And, considering the other endings, that leaves me thinking that Rebirth is, in fact, the most likely ending.
I still don't like the idea of James reviving Mary, but it seems more likely than leaving with Laura (who would hate James for killing Mary) or the Maria ending (which makes the entire journey pointless).
Thanks for getting me thinking, alone in the town.
Last edited by leodegrance on 13 Jun 2006, edited 1 time in total.
Wow!!
That's really a very beliavable theory. To tell you the truth,I've never thought of it that way.
I've played SH2 6-7 times now,and with your genious theory you shared with us really did open my eyes to see the real truth in things.^^
That's really a very beliavable theory. To tell you the truth,I've never thought of it that way.
I've played SH2 6-7 times now,and with your genious theory you shared with us really did open my eyes to see the real truth in things.^^
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WOW, I've never thought of it that way..
Well done, the first long topic that I enjoy and complete to the end..
If I may ask, Do you have any degree in phsychology or whatever that help you in this ?
Well done, the first long topic that I enjoy and complete to the end..
If I may ask, Do you have any degree in phsychology or whatever that help you in this ?
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Am right with you Ryan. I have viewed PH as a tormentor
for the most part though with this it makes sense for him
to play the role as both Savior and tormentor in order to
accomplish the ultimate goal. Kind of like a wake up call.
Now I am going to write my essay on why the wallet in the toilet
and the UFO ending as well as Eddies ass crack prove that the "In Water
Ending" was true. (Cause that is what you would about need to prove it )
for the most part though with this it makes sense for him
to play the role as both Savior and tormentor in order to
accomplish the ultimate goal. Kind of like a wake up call.
Now I am going to write my essay on why the wallet in the toilet
and the UFO ending as well as Eddies ass crack prove that the "In Water
Ending" was true. (Cause that is what you would about need to prove it )
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You could also link this with Valitiel in Silent Hill 3 as well (via the link made in the Book Of Lost Memories). Valtiel isn't distinctly evil, he's just a tool of a higher power. In laymans terms, he's "just doing his job" in the same way PH is. PH only punishes James as long as James believes he, himself, deserves to be punished, and then both PH's end their lives when he feels redeemed.
In this sense, they could well be servants of Metatron himself. Ever notice that shape in the middle of the seal of Metatron?
In this sense, they could well be servants of Metatron himself. Ever notice that shape in the middle of the seal of Metatron?
PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER_SHOW PRIME_BBCODE_SPOILER:
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The main point of my post is to say that I don't think Pyramid Head's main function is as a punisher, that the punishment is only a residual effect of the main goal. A secondary point is that they are not servants of any higher power, but rather that they are sort of a contingency device belonging to the sane and stable part of his mind.
Also, Metatron is like Samael, in that neither entities exist. The mark shown there is the Virun VII Crest, which Silent Hill 3 reveals to be a neutral effect, contingent upon the caster.
I also must be clear that my view of Silent Hill's pantheon of gods is a very atheistic one: I don't believe any of them are gods, or even beings of any higher power. I believe they are monsters made stronger and more prominent because they are the product of a group consciousness, as opposed to regular monsters being the construct of a single individual's mind.
Also, Metatron is like Samael, in that neither entities exist. The mark shown there is the Virun VII Crest, which Silent Hill 3 reveals to be a neutral effect, contingent upon the caster.
I also must be clear that my view of Silent Hill's pantheon of gods is a very atheistic one: I don't believe any of them are gods, or even beings of any higher power. I believe they are monsters made stronger and more prominent because they are the product of a group consciousness, as opposed to regular monsters being the construct of a single individual's mind.
Then, equally, you can apply the theory of Metatron and Samael to aspects within ourselves.alone in the town wrote:The main point of my post is to say that I don't think Pyramid Head's main function is as a punisher, that the punishment is only a residual effect of the main goal. A secondary point is that they are not servants of any higher power, but rather that they are sort of a contingency device belonging to the sane and stable part of his mind.
Also, Metatron is like Samael, in that neither entities exist. The mark shown there is the Virun VII Crest, which Silent Hill 3 reveals to be a neutral effect, contingent upon the caster.
I also must be clear that my view of Silent Hill's pantheon of gods is a very atheistic one: I don't believe any of them are gods, or even beings of any higher power. I believe they are monsters made stronger and more prominent because they are the product of a group consciousness, as opposed to regular monsters being the construct of a single individual's mind.
The symbol of Metatron, in this sense, perhaps is the symbol of Metratron is a symbol of James' self-redemption (hence it popping up in the fight against the two pyramid heads). In this sense, the pyramid heads ARE a servant of a higher power - that higher power being James will. You could say that while the physical figures of Metatron and Samael don't exist, they represent aspects of the characters themselves.
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OK, I've palyed SH2 today, and If I may ask how your theory would explain the painting under the place where they used to hang people...
In the prison you see a pic two PH hang a man ?
In the prison you see a pic two PH hang a man ?
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The painting in the prison isn't even real, because the prison itself isn't real, if I remember correctly. If that's what you're asking.Mohamed_AlSadr wrote:OK, I've palyed SH2 today, and If I may ask how your theory would explain the painting under the place where they used to hang people...
In the prison you see a pic two PH hang a man ?
If you're looking for an interpretation of the painting, whether it's real or not, I would say it's just there for the players who can't take subtle hints as to why the Pyramid Head is there to begin with. The painting depicts him as being judge, jury, and executioner, in my opinion.
Hope that made sense. First post, how you guys doin'?
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Sure.
1. History: Pyramid Head IS based upon a historical figure, executioners from the town's past.
2. Perception: Even though they are serving to show James the path to vanquishing his delusion, he does not realize this until the very end. Until then, he most likely believes that the Pyramid Heads are nothing but mindless tormentors.
3. Foreshadowing: You find Maria in an identical position some time later. More hints about what he's supposed to do with her.
1. History: Pyramid Head IS based upon a historical figure, executioners from the town's past.
2. Perception: Even though they are serving to show James the path to vanquishing his delusion, he does not realize this until the very end. Until then, he most likely believes that the Pyramid Heads are nothing but mindless tormentors.
3. Foreshadowing: You find Maria in an identical position some time later. More hints about what he's supposed to do with her.
hey i was thinkin the same way for a lil while hes just there to show james the truth and help him and if he does something stupid ocasionals beat him wit a big ass knife. But when it came from me since it was me thinkin it and i was high lol i decided naw im just fukin dumb hes evil lol but when i hear it from someone else i think hey ya yur right good job great theory and umm since where givin away kids i found a chineese 9 year old orphan if yall want it its in my closet eating kibles and bits his name is wang
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