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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 29 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2301
he doesnt kill himself because he doesnt yet know that he killed mary.
so it makes sense why he would say that at that time.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11384
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
The scene is post-videotape, he's perfectly aware.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 18 Apr 2006
Notes left: 583
Last seen at: Lakeside Amusement Park
Magus wrote:
I'm not a fan that could remember every line exactly like it is


No need to remember everything due to the brilliant of the internet, try this link:
http://faqs.ign.com/articles/374/374938p1.html

Just refer it to the full script. It helps a lot, as nobody can remember the exact phrases all the time. And sometimes, one word can make or kill a theory.

Magus wrote:
"but I think most murderers don't kill themselves." ---> most school shooter did, you dont need statistic to remember that.


Yet James is not a school shooter. Either case, your original statement was

Quote:
btw, I found it ironic that James would come out with that sentence "I'd never kill myself." but he killed another person


I was merely pointing out that most murderers do not kill themselves. So the fact that he said he will never kill himself is not that significantly correlated to whether he will kill someone; hence not that ironic.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 29 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2301
AuraTwilight wrote:
The scene is post-videotape, he's perfectly aware.

so he already knows then what he did to mary.

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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 21 May 2010
Notes left: 1241
As far as Angela goes, i'd think the staircases would go on forever or maybe it leads back to the labyrinth where james found her. I wonder what would've happened if james didn't show up tho? Would she just be in an endless cycle of being tortured by her father?

After all when james shows up, i believe she's about to be attacked again by her father (i haven't played the game in years, but i think that's what's happened)...i guess ultimately it was destined for james to be part of angela's nightmare because of his situation with mary.

As far as james finally knowing what he did to mary, my thought is that after knowing, he wants to finally atone for his sins and bring closure to the whole situation...people want to say he commited suicide as the real ending since SH4 makes a small reference that he and mary were never seen again...so it's assumed he died or he's still wandering around in the otherworld with maria(even tho in maria's ending he left with her)


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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 04 Mar 2007
Notes left: 490
I've got something of a devil's advocate article to add to this: what if the flames weren't symbolizing hell, but flames that were there to cleanse Angela of sin and purify her soul to allow her to ascend to her version of heaven/acceptance? She is leaving behind the parts of her life that hurt her and made her believe she was a horrible human being on the staircase, and metaphorically burning the bridge to come back to it.

She has accepted that no one but herself can save her, and instead of searching for her mother or family to save her, she drops attachments to them behind and allows them to be consumed.

Just an interesting idea, even though it's not as solid as Angela punishing herself.


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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 18 Apr 2006
Notes left: 583
Last seen at: Lakeside Amusement Park
Sionnan wrote:
I've got something of a devil's advocate article to add to this: what if the flames weren't symbolizing hell, but flames that were there to cleanse Angela of sin and purify her soul to allow her to ascend to her version of heaven/acceptance?


I'm sure someone had suggested that before... probably somewhere in the 60+ combine pages of thread that discussed about whether Angela was sexually or physically abused only (I always hate using "only" in this situation...)

Nevertheless, it's an interesting way of thinking that as well. Which if you think about it, goes a little to what Alone in the Dark suggested about what Pyraid Head and Maria was about vs Fire and Angela.

Quote:
She has accepted that no one but herself can save her, and instead of searching for her mother or family to save her, she drops attachments to them behind and allows them to be consumed.


I think the problem I can see this theory being not as solid (as what you are aware of as well) is that Angela has never came to term of what she has done throughout the game. Even when James met her at the stairway, she was still a psycho lady. So in order to make this work, we have to think the "cleansing fire" is what Angela wants subconsciously instead of what she appears to want. Because seems like what she wanted in Silent Hill was to find her mother, whatever she wanted to do to or with her.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2007
Notes left: 5077
Sionnan wrote:
I've got something of a devil's advocate article to add to this: what if the flames weren't symbolizing hell, but flames that were there to cleanse Angela of sin and purify her soul to allow her to ascend to her version of heaven/acceptance?

Depending on how you interpret Jesus's wheat/chaff story, that's exactly what the flames are supposed to do (chaff is not a different "being" from the wheat from which it's separated).

However, in the case of Angela and her arc through the game, I don't think she's getting cleansed of her guilt so much as wallowing in it. Mindless self-flagellation doesn't lead to redemption.

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Gravedigger
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Missing since: 04 Mar 2007
Notes left: 490
Well, maybe it's a crossover. It'll burn away her sin of patricide, and then maybe she'll be forgiven (by who, even she doesn't know). It's obvious she craves acceptance and forgiveness, but from whom (the father who abused her and the family that wouldn't stop it?) and for what (defending herself, and desiring love?) seem to be at odds with each other.

Honestly, I know I'm stretching. More likely than not, it's symbolizing she's the one being totally consumed by the horrors perpetuated by her and to her.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 05 Jun 2010
Notes left: 1
I kind of assumed she'd just keep going up those stairs until they filtered off into some sort of darkness and she just died of her own despair. Or maybe she jumped from the top of the hotel. A three story drop could kill her.

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Truth and lies;
Life and Death;
The game of turning white to black,
And black to white.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 29 Jun 2009
Notes left: 2301
or she just convulses at the top of the staircase and stands there forever.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2007
Notes left: 5077
One of the rare instances where the truth is stranger and somewhat more disturbing than the imagination... :P

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My Bestsellers Clerk
 Post subject: Re: Beyond the flaming staircase... *possible spoilers*
     
         
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Missing since: 08 Aug 2010
Notes left: 362
I saw the camhack of Angela climbing the stairs. It ended just as a normal stairway and she was alive when she reached the top and just kind of stood there. The length didn't go on forever and she wasn't even burned when she ascended all the way.

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"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." ~ Christopher Hitchens R.I.P.


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Just Passing Through
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Missing since: 18 May 2006
Notes left: 75
Mr Garland wrote:
Ok, as we all know the fate of angela at the end of the game is left up to the player, and if we are to assume that her line "for me, its always like this" suggests that the fire is part of her otherworld, what do you think happened to angela when she finished climbing the stairs. if the fire didnt damage her?
Did she have her own boss to fight? Did she find another way to end her life?

Any ideas are welcome!

I guess it's because I like happy endings, but I like to think Angela reached some kind of resolution at the end.

Like James, Angela isn't exactly a bad person...she's more of a victim. Neither is Eddie, actually...probably one of the key points in SH2. As far as I remember, Angela never really became abusive to anyone throughout her experience in Silent Hill, unlike Eddie, who became twisted by his experience, and tried to kill James.

This leads me to believe that like James, she has a chance to resolve her story, and not just walk up those fiery stairs endlessly. Remember James too was also "elevating" up a building in the rain (water, in contrast fire; rain=tears/sorrow, as opposed to flame=fury of her abuse). While James' final boss is Maria, perhaps Angela's final confrontation is with some kind of manifestation of the mother she was looking for. And while it seems unlikely Angela would change, remember that even Heather in SH3 changed at the end, feeling a little compassion for Claudia despite wanting to get revenge and kill her throughout most of the game (if my memory serves me correctly).


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Beyond the flaming staircase... *possible spoilers*
     
         
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Missing since: 27 Jul 2009
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Uyrikeustek wrote:
I saw the camhack of Angela climbing the stairs. It ended just as a normal stairway and she was alive when she reached the top and just kind of stood there. The length didn't go on forever and she wasn't even burned when she ascended all the way.


Because you aren't meant to see what Angela does, so the developers just stopped there.


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Gravedigger
 Post subject: Re: Beyond the flaming staircase... *possible spoilers*
     
         
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Missing since: 05 Dec 2010
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1fFYj4J ... re=related

Watch the Clip for 6:00 onwards. Jeremy Blaustein pretty much chastises team Silent for ripping off scenes from many critically acclaimed movies, asking them to have some self respect in the process...The flaming staircase scene, in particular was mentioned as being ripped off from 'Barton Fink', a movie by the Coen brothers starring John Turturro....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barton_Fink

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Now I Know, The Real Reason Why I Came To This Town....I Wonder....What Was I Afraid Of? Without You..I've Got Nothing...Now, We Can Be Together Again.....Mary.....


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
 Post subject: Re: Beyond the flaming staircase... *possible spoilers*
     
         
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Missing since: 30 Mar 2009
Notes left: 1081
Last seen at: North of The Wall
I guess maybe if you make the stairway a corridor and have Angela walking down it toting a shotgun and yelling "I'll show you the life of the mind, I'll show you the life of the mind, I WILL SHOW YOU THE LIFE OF THE MIND!" then I could see it as a direct rip off rather than an inspiration.

If you're interested, it's this scene from about 2 minutes in.

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Too cold to start a fire
I'm burning diesel, burning dinosaur bones
I'll take the river down to still water
And ride a pack of dogs


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Historical Society Historian
 Post subject: Re: Beyond the flaming staircase... *possible spoilers*
     
         
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11384
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Jeremy Blaustein is kind of a total goddamn asshole, from what I've seen of him.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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