Let's talk Combat in SH5

[SilentMadness]

Being able to fight back with punches, kicks or even a few combos is something even and average person would do, provided they weren't paralyzed with fright. But this is a game and if they were, it'd be really boring just sitting there the whole time watching your character cry like a baby.

you mean like clock tower or haunting ground? The reason I don't play them is because they don't fight back. And it is not just because they are girls (hell, Heather knew nothing was going to stop her from getting her revenge)

[SHSharpshooter]

If they have the breakable items thing, I hope they play it off a little better this time.

I was shocked to see a sledgehammer rendered useless after maybe eight hits. The katana surprised me a bit as well, but one cannot attest to the quality of that instrument. A sledge is made for abuse, I was offended by it's lack of structural stability.

Things like broken 2x4s, glass bottles, TVs and broken poles, sure. Cheap crap. Crowbars, tire irons and sledgehammers are not made to be cheap.

[Thereal-Toxicfumes]

I want to agree with who ever said combat would be great but story line is more important. I looked at the trailor and they say they are bringing SH 2 back. awesome, i hope by that they mean storyline and a good storyline with good combat would be awesome and maybe some fun shooting abilities. I really think finding a sniper gun that you have to use from the top of the roof to shoot as many things as possible would be badass. and the more you kill the less you deal with in the building. That to me would be realistic, fun and sick as hell. I feel it would be a good idea to help bring up the excitement to the ending of the game. as the final boss always has a buildup right b4 it.

[Ashmodean]

I really think finding a sniper gun that you have to use from the top of the roof to shoot as many things as possible would be badass. and the more you kill the less you deal with in the building. That to me would be realistic, fun and sick as hell.

This is exactly the kind of thing that I hope doesn't happen. The nightmares of Silent Hill are allways more of a journey than they are an attack. Sure the monsters attack you but every encounter is allways in context.

For example in Silent Hill 2 when you are first wondering in the fog of the town you come across the laying figures wich represent repression and anguish. James still has no idea what he has done but his mind is still battling itself. Later you come across the maniquins that represent sexual urges or objectification of women. James still doesn't understand but he is getting warmer. When pyramid head attacks it is like the logical part of James brain that is screaming to tell him the truth he allready knows but can't come to grips with. It isn't untill James has explored the hospital that the nurses start to populate the town as well as James remembers more and more even if it is on a primal level.

The monsters also never act with any kind of real inteligence. It is almost like the classic tales abotu ghosts that reenact the same event over and over. They are only there to represent what is in that particular persons mind. And they will only manifest as the mind allows it. That is why when James got to Silent Hill he didnt just see an appiration of Mary telling him about the horrible things he did.

To have a bunch of monsters storm the building that the lead character is in just screams "ACTION!" to me and would be throwing away any real kind of significance that the story would have.

Don't get me wrong. It's not a bad idea from a gaming standpoint. Many games have done the same thing and it was super sweet but it jsut doesn't belong in Silent Hill.

[SilentRacoonX]

^I concur 100%. Though it would be neat to have a RE4 style Silent Hill, I just don't think it would be authentic to SH. It worked for the RE series, the transition was brilliant. I just dont think it belongs in the world of SH. If you give the protagonist too much weaponry and too much power, it's just not scary anymore and becomes a bloodfest.

[Thereal-Toxicfumes]

the reason why they dont and really cant have to much power is because of the ammo. I stick with my idea, i think it would be very fun and could definately follow a story line. Say you only have like 5 shots and you have to use them wisely. You guys make it seem that just because you have 1 powerful weapon your god. SH is all about finding your ammo. Theres times you want to use the Shotgun but your thinking crap i have like 10rounds left so i better use my handgun. Thats where the combat has always stayed SH like. Sure the shotgun is powerful but you are limited. The same thing would be with any type of weapon. The greater the weapon the less ammo you find. Thats what i liked about SH combat. You didnt get to unload on something, you were realistic on how you had to kill something. I think the introduction of something new, Not seen in the other games would be exciting as long as it doesnt stray too far. The trailor says they are playing it safe. That doesn't sound too exciting to me. Oh yeah its like SH2, im glad but why couldnt they make it original like SH2 is original. I know eventually they wouldnt be able to keep originality in a series but i know a few ways they could keep it very SH like, with a few new things to keep existing fans and even get a few more.

On a side note, i was curious on how people would feel about a co-op version of SH. Not throughout the entire game but where too people can play, sometimes together sometimes in seperate places. With blueray i think they would be able to do this keeping the graphics looking amazing. I dont really know how i feel about this but i always found it more fun to play SH with someone else.

[Breaka]

I do agree that anything involving guns, sniper scopes and sneaking around belongs in Metal Gear and not Silent Hill. Silent Hill is meant to be claustrophobic, up close and personal. Sniping is too sanitary and removed from the target. It might be fun but it sure aint scary, as the monsters are meant to see you first, not the other way.

Although I do still think there is room for action. For example, if you compare the Cabin Siege in RE4, to the Grey Children scene in the Silent Hill Movie, you can see how that sort of thing could work in SHV.

I'd hate all out gunfights from start to finish, but that don't mean you can't have a few 'whoa' moments. It's not like Silent Hill hasn't had them in the past like the Pyramid Head chasing you down that corridor in SH2 or the red beam of death in SH3, or Walter with that gun at the prison tower in SH4.

Nothing wrong with stepping it up some. As long as its done right.

[Devilsknight]

Im not into the Sniper idea either, but it could fit with some story acually.
Imagine him shooting children or women ( whatever ) during the war, which still haunts his mind and makes him dream nightmares. By shooting monsters with a sniper from a roof, he could "learn" that " Im acually shooting these monsters just as I shoot the children ...But the children had done nothing wrong . Im a shitty excuse for a man ".

I mean, to much action isnt good, Im aware of that, but after all this is a man who is a war veteran, he should have some gun-related things that could appear in SH. We dont know what he did back in the war, or what Silent Hill ( if anything ) tries to remind him.

A sniper on the roof of a old gunstore could work, having him throwing it away or running out of ammo, but just to put something new in SH rather then another " Oh noes, here comes object X * Hit * x 2 , *Stomp* , your dead ! "

As said this is a war veteran, he should be able to handle a weapon much better then Heather or James, and be able to do greater manovers then them.

[Thereal-Toxicfumes]

thats what i was thinking, plus i feel it would be fun as hell. My favorite game with some sniper action is Call of Duty 4. Its fun as hell to watch how much the wind effects a bullet, now im not saying add this in to SH, but that maybe the sniping wouldnt be easy due to some unfortunate circumstance, maybe hes having crazy flashbacks thats making him having a hard time focusing or w/e, i still feel it would be something to make SH5 stick out.

[D90]

How would adding a mechanic used in almost every other 3rd person game ever help Silent Hill V "stick out"? Adding a Sniper Rifle would make it like RE4, or an FPS.

As for breakable weapons, if they include them they should make sure the weapons are as durable as they would be in real life (i.e some never break) and/or make it so you can only carry one weapon at a time.
The only example I can think of where breakable weapons haven't really pissed me off is Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen 2 and Soul Reaver 2. That was because the weapons didn't break quickly (to my recollection), you could only carry one at a time, and they were so abundant, switching to another one was more natural than it was a hassle.

Well, that's how I remember it anyway - maybe another play-through is in order...

[KLGChaos]

How would adding a mechanic used in almost every other 3rd person game ever help Silent Hill V "stick out"? Adding a Sniper Rifle would make it like RE4, or an FPS.

As for breakable weapons, if they include them they should make sure the weapons are as durable as they would be in real life (i.e some never break) and/or make it so you can only carry one weapon at a time.
The only example I can think of where breakable weapons haven't really pissed me off is Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen 2 and Soul Reaver 2. That was because the weapons didn't break quickly (to my recollection), you could only carry one at a time, and they were so abundant, switching to another one was more natural than it was a hassle.

Well, that's how I remember it anyway - maybe another play-through is in order...

Condemned and Condemned 2's weapons were like that. Some of the weaker weapons would break quickly like you'd think they would (2x4s, toilet seats, etc), but things like Fire Axes, Pipes, etc. would last quite a while.

[SilentRacoonX]

Ya they just need to keep the combat the way it is, maybe make him manouver better. But the shooting system shouldnt change.

[Devilsknight]

How would adding a mechanic used in almost every other 3rd person game ever help Silent Hill V "stick out"? Adding a Sniper Rifle would make it like RE4, or an FPS.

As for breakable weapons, if they include them they should make sure the weapons are as durable as they would be in real life (i.e some never break) and/or make it so you can only carry one weapon at a time.
The only example I can think of where breakable weapons haven't really pissed me off is Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen 2 and Soul Reaver 2. That was because the weapons didn't break quickly (to my recollection), you could only carry one at a time, and they were so abundant, switching to another one was more natural than it was a hassle.

Well, that's how I remember it anyway - maybe another play-through is in order...

It would "Stick out" from the rest of the Silent Hill games, which would make it more original. If it would be considered "sticking out" for the mainstream addiaunce I really dont care.
Its next gen people, stickbeating is getting really old, even for Silent Hill. Why not have a touch of something else for a change ... if you want to make the game original and "new thinking".

Otherwise go play SH 1-3 3490 more times, if thats what you liked with SH. Seems like the only thing the new developers could make some fans happy with is a SH2 with Next Gen grafix, but then we wouldnt be going anywere.

P.S , If it was a PS3 exclusive we could have some beating with the Sixaxis =)) That would kick ass !


( And a sniper wouldnt have to change the aiming system, just make a little square with what you see in the scope in your top-right corner and thats that. )

P.S.S, I know many hate to compare RE with SH. But if you look at RE4 and RE 1-3 , they have many things that arent even remotly the same. What made RE4 so that good is that the developers flushed everything they ever knew before down the toilet and just made a new and daring game ... and it worked ! So why not for SHV ? Becuase of the konservative SH fans ? Screw them, as said, if you want another game like SH1-3 then go replay them.

[SilentRacoonX]

Nope, that would just make it a shooter/action game and that's not what silent hill is. Go play RE4 or the SH FPS arcade game if you want that bs. There is nothing wrong with change, but it should be smart and original. Well thought out. Making a RE4 copycat game would piss me off, I dont care how badass RE4 was, this isn't resident evil. Resident evil always had a military feel, thats why it wasnt such a big deal when it made the transition to a shooter. Now with this new military protagonist I do believe he should maneuver better but as for the shooting aspect, it should remain the same.

[Devilsknight]

Nope, that would just make it a shooter/action game and that's not what silent hill is. Go play RE4 or the SH FPS arcade game if you want that bs. There is nothing wrong with change, but it should be smart and original. Well thought out. Making a RE4 copycat game would piss me off, I dont care how badass RE4 was, this isn't resident evil. Resident evil always had a military feel, thats why it wasnt such a big deal when it made the transition to a shooter. Now with this new military protagonist I do believe he should maneuver better but as for the shooting aspect, it should remain the same.

I never said it should be actionbased, I said " A touch of something new ". And I compared the making of RE4 with SHV, not the games themself. I just mean that they cant go on forever thinking " Oh what would they fans say if we cut "this and that" out of the game".
Seems to me many want " a new SH game " , but they are to afraid of changes.

[LanceS133]

With the right weapon equipped I didn't mind the combat at all in any SH game. I've never once said "Man the combat style in this game sucks!"

[Thereal-Toxicfumes]

Im not saying making it stick out over other games but stick out over the series itself. Im not saying alot of combat either, im saying it would be fun to have maybe just 1 part where its like a FPS. But not like any other FPS, but make it into SH FPS. Only on that one part though, i dont want it to be a FPS either but i dont think it would hurt to incorporate it into the game at least once. I see a picture in my head but i cant really describe it perfectly.

[Ashmodean]

DevilsKnight and Thereal probably have the same kind of mindset that George Lucas had when he made the starwars prequels. I think we all know how that went.

[Thereal-Toxicfumes]

I'm sorry that i like games the way i do, and get bored when they stay the same and do nothing new. Every single SH was different than the other, maybe everyone didnt like it as much as they did another but doesnt that make people like something even better as long as they dont kill the game. Its easy to say SH2 is the best but from what i hear they are making this like SH2 again, when you do something like this, alot of the times its a disappointment cause its too much like it but not better and when something isnt better the majority say it wasnt that good, SH2 is still better. No shit, its hard to beat and original. The best chance is to try something new. When i say bring in sniper, im not saying actual sniping, hell it could be something totally different than that. What im saying is trying something small that is still new toward the combat system. Why does something always have to stay the same.
Let me see if this works. Older cars, powerful and beautiful(50-60's models) now lets look at todays models, completely different and some of them are starting to go back to the older style, yet they arent completely going back to the same thingg. They are adding new technology into the cars. Thats what im hoping for SH5. Making it like SH2 but do something that is noticably different, more than just the story line.

[Ashmodean]

Its easy to say SH2 is the best but from what i hear they are making this like SH2 again

If you listen to the interviews and read the articles the only thing that makes it like SH2 is that everything deals with what is going on in the protagonist's head. It doesn't men that the game will play exactly the same.

Let me see if this works. Older cars, powerful and beautiful(50-60's models) now lets look at todays models, completely different and some of them are starting to go back to the older style, yet they arent completely going back to the same thingg. They are adding new technology into the cars. Thats what im hoping for SH5. Making it like SH2 but do something that is noticably different, more than just the story line.

I understand the analogy and I get what most are sayign abotu improving the action but using a "sniper scene" or those flashing "A, B, X, or Y" buttons to get out of a situation or to save yourself form falling or to dodge are just gimmicks ratehr than real emergent gameplay.

A good yet somewhat off topic example would be to compare Call of duty with Halo. In call of duty you have vehicles btu it is executed in a "this is the vehicle level" kind of way where as halo jsut has vehicles that make sense to use but aren't forced upon you nor are they completely necessary.