SH 5: A Complete Disappointment

[MooseFlanagan]

Well, for one thing, it pretty much cemented the Order as "random evil cult of kidnapping and killing bitches for little to no reason", when it's made pretty explicit that people like Dahlia are in the severe minority.

But the Order's always been a rather poorly-defined organisation. The members we see in Homecoming could be Order Splinter Group #13020, they could be a revival of the Order's ideals with completely different members, they could be an extremist denomination, hell, they could be a manifestation of Alex's fear of people with silly gasmasks for all we know. You can take any of these explanations without contradicting what we know about them from previous games.

[KageReneko]

You can take any of these explanations without contradicting what we know about them from previous games.

That's he problem, every Silent Hill game has hidden information that throw a bit of light on the previous games... SHH doesn't have connections with an of the games and it also brought a town that SHOULD be in at leat one memo of the previous games... Double Helix didn't ant to take the risk of mess any from the previous games (Like Climax did with Lisa) so they just create their little bubble where the events won't affect the main canon in anyway...

Silent Hill Homecoming doesn't mess with the main storyline, but is that that nakes it feel out of the canon... It just brought stuff that we never had heard before... Silent Hill games always have continuity although the stories be totally apart... Look Silent Hill 2 and 4... Damn, even the arcade was able to take a story from a memo for make it a game...

Double Helix is a lazy development team and although SHH has good points I hope that DH never be in charge of the franchise again...

[MooseFlanagan]

Silent Hill Homecoming doesn't mess with the main storyline, but is that that nakes it feel out of the canon... It just brought stuff that we never had heard before... Silent Hill games always have continuity although the stories be totally apart... Look Silent Hill 2 and 4... Damn, even the arcade was able to take a story from a memo for make it a game...

Double Helix is a lazy development team and although SHH has good points I hope that DH never be in charge of the franchise again...

But isn't that a positive thing? If you don't like Homecoming, you can ignore it entirely. It has no bearing on the plot of the series at large. One of the reasons people seem to dislike Origins is due to messing with continuity, and yet Homecoming goes out of its way to make sure it doesn't mess with continuity, and now that's a negative?

As Kaisura said, it's Silent Hill Homecoming, pointedly not Silent Hill 5. A side-story, a gaiden game, a spin-off. It's not supposed to have much if any bearing on the series' canon.

[Travis]

You can take any of these explanations without contradicting what we know about them from previous games.

That's he problem, every Silent Hill game has hidden information that throw a bit of light on the previous games... SHH doesn't have connections with an of the games and it also brought a town that SHOULD be in at leat one memo of the previous games... Double Helix didn't ant to take the risk of mess any from the previous games (Like Climax did with Lisa) so they just create their little bubble where the events won't affect the main canon in anyway...

Silent Hill Homecoming doesn't mess with the main storyline, but is that that nakes it feel out of the canon... It just brought stuff that we never had heard before... Silent Hill games always have continuity although the stories be totally apart... Look Silent Hill 2 and 4... Damn, even the arcade was able to take a story from a memo for make it a game...

That's not the problem at all. I'm actually grateful that Failcoming isn't too much into the main storyline of the series, or that Pyramid Head is the movie's PH and not the one from SH2.

Double Helix is a lazy development team and although SHH has good points I hope that DH never be in charge of the franchise again...

A-fucking-men!

[Nyarlathotep]

So wait, they're actually lazier for coming up with their own location and story rather than just jacking one from a previous game?

[Travis]

^I think he was talking in general.

[The Adversary]

>cemented the Order as "random evil cult of kidnapping and killing bitches [. . .]"
The Order has always been known as a group that kidnapped people, children esp. So, this fact was already "cemented."

[Video Gamer]

>cemented the Order as "random evil cult of kidnapping and killing bitches [. . .]"
The Order has always been known as a group that kidnapped people, children esp. So, this fact was already "cemented."

But not on the massive scale as, y'know, AN ENTIRE TOWN.

[Kenji]

To be fair, there weren't that many people left. Most of the young'uns already left, add to that the various deaths by monster and however many joined Holloway's Order Revival faction (again, the Silent Hill Order is completely uninvolved). The number could probably be measured in tens, at most.

[Mis Krist.]

>cemented the Order as "random evil cult of kidnapping and killing bitches [. . .]"
The Order has always been known as a group that kidnapped people, children esp. So, this fact was already "cemented."

But not on the massive scale as, y'know, AN ENTIRE TOWN.

Hmm, well didn't Lisa mention something in SH1 about the "young people" from the town being spirited away? Now, I'm not saying she was without a doubt talking about the cult taking those kids (since I always assumed those missing young people just got the fuck out of Dodge and went somewhere less crazy), but that comment did come up in relation to Dahlia Gillespie and, by extension, some "queer old religion" in town. Therefore I'd say that yes, the cult was well versed in kidnapping on a massive scale.

ETA: I'd also just like to throw out here that a lot of the inconsistencies people are spotting in terms of Toluca Lake or "wtf plot connection fail" could, in all sincerity, be tossed up to the utter unreliability of the narrator--aka, Alex. That bitch be crazy. We know this from the opening seconds of the game itself. And if crazy protagonists can create an unrealistic, questionable slant in film (American Psycho) and novels (House of Leaves) well, why not video games?

[Video Gamer]

>cemented the Order as "random evil cult of kidnapping and killing bitches [. . .]"
The Order has always been known as a group that kidnapped people, children esp. So, this fact was already "cemented."

But not on the massive scale as, y'know, AN ENTIRE TOWN.

Hmm, well didn't Lisa mention something in SH1 about the "young people" from the town being spirited away? Now, I'm not saying she was without a doubt talking about the cult taking those kids (since I always assumed those missing young people just got the fuck out of Dodge and went somewhere less crazy), but that comment did come up in relation to Dahlia Gillespie and, by extension, some "queer old religion" in town. Therefore I'd say that yes, the cult was well versed in kidnapping on a massive scale.

I'd always assumed that she meant that the "young people" left as quick as they could, to get away from the weird religion in the town or some other reason like that. I never thought Lisa implied a massive kidnapping. Good point...

[Mis Krist.]

I thought they left too, to be honest, but I also think that it may be probable people were being taken into the Order and brainwashed. That happened to one of Walter's victims in SH4, I believe: she lost her family (or was it a husband?) to the Order.

While that example doesn't specifically, 100% point to them kidnapping people left, right and center, it does seem to show a history of kidnapping to further the cult's aims.

[KageReneko]

One of Joseph's memos says that the Order kidnaps and brainwashes kids for teach them their dogma... Also the profile of Sharon Blake says that she thinks that her family was abducted although just her son's grave was found (Maybe her son was a kid?) but we never knew anything about the other members of her family...

Silent Hill 4 shows us a more agressive order, they kidnap the kids for religious purposes although I can't imagine what would they do with the adult people...

But Homecoming shows us an Order that just kidnaps everybody from a town for kill them all?? They always were subtle but to take all the people from a town is too much... I just can't swallow this new Order's branch (I mean, Joseph Schreiber did a great investigation about the Order so how couldn't he know about this branch? We at least should find a book about the traitors that left the town or anything like that)...

Off course, if we use this argument we also could say that Silent Hill 4 also brought stuff that we never heard before like the 4 main sects of the Order, anyway it was made by the Japanese development team so they had the right to add anything, especially since they really tried hard to connect the sects with previous events like Joe's article, the nurse Rachel and the visit of that important woman named Dah... Also they used real locations

I haven't read enough about the 4 sects so I'd really thank if you can guide me to the thread that talks about it... I know it must be here but I'm lazy for search it by myself...

I really can't see a connection between SHH and the other games, the simple mention of Cibyl isn't enough for me and the town is just too different... I know that several years hava passed since the first game, but we have seen the town's progress until 17 years after that... And it hasn't changed so much... Remember that the people that try to modernizate the town always suffer misterious accidents...

Another thing, I really hate all those corpses in Homecoming (Especially the one that falls from the ceiling at Alchemilla... That was cheap)... The other games just showed us corpses in the alternate layer and many of them were hard to see and had ceremonial robes, the exception was SH2 where the corpses were more symbolic... We also had different corpses at morgues, hospital rooms or places filled with garbage but all them were partially visible, we just were able to see their feet or an arm... Homecoming throws us thousands of corpses (All of them are the same model) in our faces... Even Resident Evil 4 was more subtle in that aspect...

Another thing, the blogs of Alex, Elle and Wheeler never mention the Toluca Lake in the official page, Alex did mention a lake but nothing else... To mention tourist places like Toluca Lake and Silent Hill being near to your home would be interesting for your blog... Another thing, Elle seems to be funny, saracastic and a bit sassy in her blog... What the hell happened? She is so damn bored and useless in the game...

[MooseFlanagan]

I must've missed something - when did the game say that the Order kidnapped the population of Shephard's Glen?

[Mis Krist.]

>Joseph Schreiber did a great investigation about the Order so how couldn't he know about this branch?

Because Joseph Schreiber was looking at Silent Hill, not Shepherd's Glen.

>Remember that the people that try to modernizate the town always suffer misterious accidents...

Okay... so wouldn't this prevent people from changing Silent Hill all that much?, or the changes that were made would only be done under the supervision of those who approved of said changes?

>Homecoming throws us thousands of corpses (All of them are the same model) in our faces...

Almost all of the corpses in Silent Hill 2 were the same model. But apparently that's okay because that's "symbolic." If you can't try to find symbolism in the Homecoming corpses, that's sort of your problem, isn't it?

And the RE4 comment is a tad eye-roll worthy. Now, seriously, that's a game with corpses that have no meaning. Homecoming? Not so much.

ETA: And since I'm nitpicking, it was hardly "thousands" of corpses. That's a gross over-exaggeration. It wasn't even hundreds--hell, probably no more than 30 or 40. Cope.

>Elle seems to be funny, saracastic and a bit sassy in her blog... What the hell happened? She is so damn bored and useless in the game...

Desperate situations change people. They go through stages of how they handle said situation.

All I'm getting out of this post and a lot of other posts complaining about Homecoming is BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.

>when did the game say that the Order kidnapped the population of Shephard's Glen?

Well, where else did all those missing people go? O_o

[AuraTwilight]

I must've missed something - when did the game say that the Order kidnapped the population of Shephard's Glen?

Uh, you can watch them do it. Twice.

[KageReneko]

Because Joseph Schreiber was looking at Silent Hill, not Shepherd's Glen.

Joe was investigating about Silent Hill and its cult... I think the fact that the cult spawned a branch would be am interesting fact for investigate... Joe couldn't investigate about Shepherd's Glen cause it didn't exist until Double Helix made it appear from thin air...

Okay... so wouldn't this prevent people from changing Silent Hill all that much?, or the changes that were made would only be done under the supervision of those who approved of said changes?

I'm not sure about it, the town never changed, it became bigger... The main evidence is SH3... We see how Lakeside Amusement Park and Brookhaven Hospital are almost the same than years before, just with some additions and/or improvements... Even SH2 shows us how the prison and the mines still being there (Although I'm not really suire about the mines being real or not)

Almost all of the corpses in Silent Hill 2 were the same model. But apparently that's okay because that's "symbolic." If you can't be arsed to find symbolism in the Homecoming corpses, that's your problem, but I must kindly suggest that you refrain from making silly statements such as this.

The corpses in SH2 are creepy cause they look similar to James and this can have several meanings... The corpses in Homecoming are just random corpses without importance... This shows the main failure of SHH, the game shows too much... It's a lot creepier to find corpses in weird places and just see little pieces of them like the old games did instead to have lots of dead guys everywhere...

Desperate situations change people. They go through stages of how they handle said situation.

I'll give you that one... Maybe she just annoys me...

when did the game say that the Order kidnapped the population of Shephard's Glen?

I don't remember when but I'm pretty sure that the game say that the Shepherd's Glen population are being taken to Silent Hill...

[MooseFlanagan]

Well, where else did all those missing people go? O_o

Since Wheeler and Elle could see the monsters, and you see at one point that someone's tried to ram a car into a Feral, I assumed it was the monsters. But the Order idea makes a lot more sense...

*feels dumb*

[Kenji]

Joe was investigating about Silent Hill and its cult... I think the fact that the cult spawned a branch would be am interesting fact for investigate... Joe couldn't investigate about Shepherd's Glen cause it didn't exist until Double Helix made it appear from thin air...

Actually, and I've only played Homecoming once, I was under the impression that the Shepherd's Glen forefathers wanted to live normal lives as American Christians. Unfortunately for them, they actually believed in the Order's teachings, hence the fifty-year renewable pact made with God so that She'll allow them to live 98 years per century free from the Order. Not a bad deal if you're so afraid that you're actually willing to sacrifice a child to keep God off your back.

Schreiber missed out on the Holy Way because, aside from those two occurrences per century when the four families quietly sacrifice one child, Shepherd's Glen is normal, especially when compared to Silent Hill with its drug trafficking, child dungeon, and disappearances. The weirdness of one literally eclipses the other, making it seem like Mayberry in comparison.

Once again, the violent outburst of Holloway's revivalist faction is something limited entirely to the events of Homecoming. As far as she was concerned, Adam's dereliction nullified the contract, so any/everything had to be done to ingratiate Shepherd's Glen with God before they were all irredeemably damned.

Since the forefathers probably left no instructions other than "sacrifice a kid every fifty years or kiss your collective asses goodbye," the revivalists are literally flailing about, and blood sacrifice of all non-believers is a time-honored tradition of many religions and a good place to start.

[Kaisura]

I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say the people of Shephard's Glenn practised Christianity. The town doesn't even feature a church, actually (besides the Church of the Holy Way).

And of course, Shephard's Glenn and its seperatist movement didn't exist at the time of Silent Hill 4 for Schreiber to have investigated it. But I tend to agree that from the appearence of things, at the time of Silent Hill 4, Shephard's Glenn probably seemed quite normal and innocuous by comparison to Silent Hill, and thus not of any significance to his investigation.

That said, Schreiber's investigation was primarily focused on the Silent Hill Smile Society, Wish House, and The Order's ties to it, wasn't it? Not really so much the history of Silent Hill itself. The founding of Shephard's Glenn wouldn't have been anything particularly significant in the eyes of history.