"GOOD": The only ending that can possibly be true.

Have you seen Harry's daughter anywhere? Short, dark hair?

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AgentX7k
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Post by AgentX7k »

I thought the Good was more plausible also because Harry still has the red stuff (don't how to spell it). Sure he could have gotten more to give to Heather but as I understood it, it was really hard to come by plus Dahilia got rid of it all except for the one sample Kauffman had making it even rarer.
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Post by Touch Coma »

It is plausible, or there wouldn't be a Silent Hill 3.
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Post by Burning Man »

AgentX7k wrote:I thought the Good was more plausible also because Harry still has the red stuff (don't how to spell it). Sure he could have gotten more to give to Heather but as I understood it, it was really hard to come by plus Dahilia got rid of it all except for the one sample Kauffman had making it even rarer.
Lost Memories wrote:Aglaophotis

A red liquid that appears in the first and third games. Made from a medicinal
herb, it seems to have the effect of repelling evil spirits.

IMAGE: Heather's pendant
It would seem that after the first game, Harry once again procured some of the
liquid for the sake of his daughter.
If Harry still had Aglaophotis in his possession from the first game, the above statement would be contradictory.
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alone in the town
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Post by alone in the town »

In the original translation, was that book littered with as many "it seems" and "perhaps" and "it could be" statements? Is there some kind of law against making direct statements?

Either way, since collecting the Aglaophotis is not required to achieve the Good ending, that statement would possibly sort of maybe be true.
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Post by The Adversary »

Harry having "once again procured" aglaophotis indicates he did so during Silent Hill and either a) used all of it or b) lost it.
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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.
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Post by alone in the town »

That's definitely how it would seem . . .
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Post by GrievousGarland »

alone in the town wrote:In the original translation, was that book littered with as many "it seems" and "perhaps" and "it could be" statements? Is there some kind of law against making direct statements?

Either way, since collecting the Aglaophotis is not required to achieve the Good ending, that statement would possibly sort of maybe be true.
The "it seems", "perhaps" and "it could be statements" stress how up the players interpretation the game is and how mysterious the town of silent hill is.

and the statement directly states that he procured more. The "it seems" is stressing that that is the only possible conclusion because he already used it on *cough* something or lost it and he somehow had some to give to Heather.

If you really think Harry is stupid enough to lose something like that....
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Post by alone in the town »

The "it seems", "perhaps" and "it could be statements" stress how up the players interpretation the game is and how mysterious the town of silent hill is.
No, it stresses how awful this book is as a reference guide. Reference material should, ideally, be direct and informative. If I want to read about 'maybes', I can do it on these boards in real-time.

It could also mean he didn't use any on Cybil, instead consuming it while experimenting methods to compound it into pill form, and that he required more to make a finished product. Considering everything I believe, that's definitely the most plausible explanation.
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Post by LanceS133 »

Yeah it does make sense that he never used it on Cybil, seen how Kaufman used it, then later on made it into a pill.
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Post by GrievousGarland »

alone in the town wrote:
The "it seems", "perhaps" and "it could be statements" stress how up the players interpretation the game is and how mysterious the town of silent hill is.
No, it stresses how awful this book is as a reference guide. Reference material should, ideally, be direct and informative. If I want to read about 'maybes', I can do it on these boards in real-time.

It could also mean he didn't use any on Cybil, instead consuming it while experimenting methods to compound it into pill form, and that he required more to make a finished product. Considering everything I believe, that's definitely the most plausible explanation.
This isn't a normal reference guide, and it is very informative. It was a choice to make it vague in some areas and that was to do what I stated above. You just don't like it because it doesn't agree with your theories and therefore you try to discredit it like so.

and if that's what you want to think he did with it, then go ahead. It's a real shitty idea and nothing in either the games or the guide indicates it, but whatever.
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Post by Video Gamer »

GrievousGarland wrote:
alone in the town wrote:
The "it seems", "perhaps" and "it could be statements" stress how up the players interpretation the game is and how mysterious the town of silent hill is.
No, it stresses how awful this book is as a reference guide. Reference material should, ideally, be direct and informative. If I want to read about 'maybes', I can do it on these boards in real-time.

It could also mean he didn't use any on Cybil, instead consuming it while experimenting methods to compound it into pill form, and that he required more to make a finished product. Considering everything I believe, that's definitely the most plausible explanation.
This isn't a normal reference guide, and it is very informative. It was a choice to make it vague in some areas and that was to do what I stated above. You just don't like it because it doesn't agree with your theories and therefore you try to discredit it like so.

and if that's what you want to think he did with it, then go ahead. It's a real shitty idea and nothing in either the games or the guide indicates it, but whatever.
Heather has a pill of it in her locket...it didn't get there magically.

Making it "vague" is some parts still makes it a bad reference material. If all our textbooks just said 'It SEEMS that cells go through mitosis during so and so stage" than people wouldn't really trust it, would they?
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Post by GrievousGarland »

Heather has a pill of it in her locket...it didn't get there magically.

Making it "vague" is some parts still makes it a bad reference material. If all our textbooks just said 'It SEEMS that cells go through mitosis during so and so stage" than people wouldn't really trust it, would they?
But we have no idea of how hard it would have been to make a pill of it. Maybe if you pour some of the liquid out so that it comes into contact with air it hardens... maybe he just poured it into the locket and after so many years it became solid. We have no reason to assume that Harry had to have a white lab coat on and a bunch of beakers working through years and gallons of the red stuff to discover how to make it into a pill. That's stupid.

And no, I don't think it makes it a bad reference material. It gives many direct facts and lets us know many things we wouldn't know otherwise without it. We have to trust it because it is the only material that comes from the horse's mouth. It's vague because we aren't meant to know it all, simple as that.

I <3 Lost memories. I loved reading the translations. -_-
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Post by Video Gamer »

GrievousGarland wrote:
Heather has a pill of it in her locket...it didn't get there magically.

Making it "vague" is some parts still makes it a bad reference material. If all our textbooks just said 'It SEEMS that cells go through mitosis during so and so stage" than people wouldn't really trust it, would they?
But we have no idea of how hard it would have been to make a pill of it. Maybe if you pour some of the liquid out so that it comes into contact with air it hardens... maybe he just poured it into the locket and after so many years it became solid. We have no reason to assume that Harry had to have a white lab coat on and a bunch of beakers working through years and gallons of the red stuff to discover how to make it into a pill. That's stupid.

And no, I don't think it makes it a bad reference material. It gives many direct facts and lets us know many things we wouldn't know otherwise without it. We have to trust it because it is the only material that comes from the horse's mouth. It's vague because we aren't meant to know it all, simple as that.
If exposing it to air makes it harden, he shouldn't have been able to acquire the substance at all. he found it on the floor, remember?

The parts where the book is vague are bad reference material. The entire point of reference material is to be able to cite cold, hard facts, not theoretical ideas that are only slightly hinted at.
Plus, if I recall correctly, the guide also implies that the UFO endings are canon...
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Post by GrievousGarland »

If exposing it to air makes it harden, he shouldn't have been able to acquire the substance at all. he found it on the floor, remember?

The parts where the book is vague are bad reference material. The entire point of reference material is to be able to cite cold, hard facts, not theoretical ideas that are only slightly hinted at.
Plus, if I recall correctly, the guide also implies that the UFO endings are canon...
It could just take time to harden when exposed to air. We have no idea how long it had been on the floor in the first game, it certainly wasn't equal to the amount of time the the red liquid was contained within the locket.

and I don't think it being vague is a bad thing. I'm sorry, I just don't think that a SH guide being mysterious should be something it's criticized for. It's a Silent Hill guide! It being vague is to be expected. I doubt I'd be as interest in SH if I understood everything that occurred 100% for certain anyway.
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Post by Harrys_Girl »

^^As a joke of course. :P

The natural state of Agolpotis is a solid. Kuafman had turned it into a liquid... Kind of like crack being sold in crystal form, then after being heated by the consumer, turns into a liquid. I would guess the same principle would be used once again. Kaufman had transformed it into a liquid (most likely to be able to inject it via IV if things w/ Dahlia went south) then Dahlia found it in his office and smashed the vial. We don't know the length of time between Dahlia smashing it and Harry finding it, but it was probably not very long.

I am not sure how long it would take a liquid drug to form back into a soild crystalized form again, but I am willing to guess that it wouldn't take more than a yr. Harry had read about it, then probably did research then figured out how to get it back into a solid state in order to give it to Heather should she ever need it.

I am nearly %80 positive it wouldn't take more than a pot and a stove to condense it and a small mold to pore the syruped product into a mold to be dehydrated using anything from a high degree stove to a commercial meat drying oven. If crack heads can figure out how to do it, I am sure Harry could have as well.
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Post by alone in the town »

GrievousGarland wrote:But we have no idea of how hard it would have been to make a pill of it. Maybe if you pour some of the liquid out so that it comes into contact with air it hardens... maybe he just poured it into the locket and after so many years it became solid. We have no reason to assume that Harry had to have a white lab coat on and a bunch of beakers working through years and gallons of the red stuff to discover how to make it into a pill. That's stupid.
The man is using a highly rare drug with god knows what kinds of side-effects and forms, and trying to turn it into a form that his daughter might have to use one day. Consider: He sees it used once. It isn't applied orally, and the result is a gory mess . . . plus, a demon comes out of her back that could potentially destroy the world. If Harry has half a brain, he is going to consider that this is the result of faulty application. In the interest of trying his hardest to ensure Heather can safely use this drug, he is going to do as much research and experimentation as he can manage, to make sure the end result does what he hopes it will do. The drug is rare, and certainly there isn't much in the way of written information (since it's hardly an FDA-approved substance and you can't order a batch from Novartis). He may have to mix it with other substances to make it safe, and he may need more than the tiny bit he collected in Silent Hill to make it right. You also must factor that Aglaophotis might simply not have a seventeen-year effective shelf life. Certainly there aren't many, if any, drugs out there that retain anything close to full potency after almost two decades on the shelf. The fact that Heather reacted much differently from the Incubator is suggestive of differences in compound.

You can ignore this if you like. It's definitely more thinking than you've appeared willing to invest so far.
And no, I don't think it makes it a bad reference material. It gives many direct facts and lets us know many things we wouldn't know otherwise without it. We have to trust it because it is the only material that comes from the horse's mouth. It's vague because we aren't meant to know it all, simple as that.
If we're not 'meant to know' things, why in the hell do we need a reference material? We can be just as ignorant without purchasing a book. The fact is, a reference is supposed to confirm facts. That's the whole point of them. Would you use a dictionary that intentionally left out words beginning with G, or a history book that merely speculates whether or not the Allies won the Second World War?
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Post by GrievousGarland »

God, I'm done dealing with you. You're the one over thinking things because you just don't like the facts the way they are currently presented. The simplest solution is most often correct. Harry needed to get more because he used it on Cybil, that is why the guide says "he somehow acquired more". There was only one way you could get rid of the red liquid once you had it in SH1, deal with it. If you want to assume he did experiments on it after the fact, go ahead, just don't expect me or team silent to agree with you because there is nothing that indicates he did such things other than in the explanations you formulated in your head.

and you didn't purchase "Lost Memories", it was a free bonus text that came with the guide to SH3. You aren't supposed to expect Websters from a "freebie", christ..

EDIT: and don't forget that the canon novel says you're incorrect. Why you insist on fighting it is beyond me.
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Post by Video Gamer »

GrievousGarland wrote:God, I'm done dealing with you. You're the one over thinking things because you just don't like the facts the way they are currently presented. The simplest solution is most often correct. Harry needed to get more because he used it on Cybil, that is why the guide says "he somehow acquired more". There was only one way you could get rid of the red liquid once you had it in SH1, deal with it. If you want to assume he did experiments on it after the fact, go ahead, just don't expect me or team silent to agree with you because there is nothing that indicates he did such things other than in the explanations you formulated in your head.

and you didn't purchase "Lost Memories", it was a free bonus text that came with the guide to SH3. You aren't supposed to expect Websters from a "freebie", christ..
Dictionary.com...
The simplest solution leaves a few too many plot holes.
What's more, I came to basically the same conclusion as him. I didn't think that Harry would go and do a bunch of fancy experiments on the material, but chances are, he probably lost the chemical at some point between SH1 and SH3. I figured that when the cultist attacked later, that maybe he had destroyed the chemical that Harry had from the beginning. But that's just speculation. I know that.
Fact of the matter is, Team Silent bothered to reference nearly every other character in the first game, in the third. Dahlia, in obvious ways, Lisa, Cheryl, and of course, Harry. The only people who weren't referenced, as far as I know, were Dr. K, and Cybil. Dr. K is dead. Why is it so wrong to assume that Cybil shares the same fate?
Once more, it is still illogical for Harry to use the chemical on Cybil to cure her. he had no way of knowing that the chemical does what it does, and the time-loop idea is illogical, as well; if he could remember enough from his "past dreams" to figure out how to cure Cybil, he could probably figure out that Dahlia's freaking insane.
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Post by GrievousGarland »

Video Gamer wrote:
GrievousGarland wrote:God, I'm done dealing with you. You're the one over thinking things because you just don't like the facts the way they are currently presented. The simplest solution is most often correct. Harry needed to get more because he used it on Cybil, that is why the guide says "he somehow acquired more". There was only one way you could get rid of the red liquid once you had it in SH1, deal with it. If you want to assume he did experiments on it after the fact, go ahead, just don't expect me or team silent to agree with you because there is nothing that indicates he did such things other than in the explanations you formulated in your head.

and you didn't purchase "Lost Memories", it was a free bonus text that came with the guide to SH3. You aren't supposed to expect Websters from a "freebie", christ..
Dictionary.com...
The simplest solution leaves a few too many plot holes.
Well, it's better than AITT's convoluted explanation. He can explain it till he's blue in the face but it doesn't change the fact that the canon novel from Konami says he's wrong. It irritates me to see him act so condescending against those that don't agree with him.

but the fact that a "free" dictionary exists doesn't change anything. Lost memories was a freebie, the equivalent of a hat or t-shirt you get from the preorder of something. For what it is, it's a pretty nice guide. You can expect them to explain every single detail, I doubt team silent would have wanted you to know all the secrets anyway. I respect that.

EDIT: I read your edit, and I agree with you. Harry using the red liquid on Cybil makes little sense. That novel still says that he did it, and therefore I believe it. I however don't believe this crap on Harry losing the red liquid in any way other than using it on Cybil.
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Post by AuraTwilight »

Well, it's better than AITT's convoluted explanation. He can explain it till he's blue in the face but it doesn't change the fact that the canon novel from Konami says he's wrong. It irritates me to see him act so condescending against those that don't agree with him.
Canonical to the novel doesn't mean canonical to the games. Most likely, they're not in the same continuity, and we don't know how the book addresses it, so it doesn't count for shit in arguing the logistics of saving Cybil. For all we know, the author made an asspull such as, "Then I remembered the words that girl, Alessa, told me, and I threw the Aglaophotis."
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