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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 25 Mar 2009
Notes left: 1345
Last seen at: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Quote:
Alessa is refusing to "lend [Dahlia] a teensy bit of [Alessa's] power." Dahlia wants Alessa to kill more people for her.


Killing people for Dahlia doesn't seem like lending any power at all. The power is all still Alessa's.

Quote:
Uh . . . b/c Dahlia's not the leader of the organization and does whatever the fuck she wants, regardless of what the rest of the congregation anticipates.


That's not answering my question, though. If The Order has impregnated women before and failed, why is Alessa's case any different? Why would Dahlia randomly decide to blow off The Order on this one occasion and do things her way? If the Sect of the Holy Woman wants to see God reborn, wouldn't they have supported Dahlia in trying to birth it from Alessa by any means necessary? Don't they all have a stake in this? It seems that that's the main point of the Sect's existence.

Quote:
Irrelevant. Vincent is specifically talking about how fucking bananas Dahlia is, and how the congregation views her.


It's perfectly relevant. He doesn't like The Order anymore, and therefore, he despises everyone in it, especially members of influence like Claudia and Dahlia. And he's speaking in terms of how he views her, he doesn't say the congregation thinks Dahlia is crazy.


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RESPECT
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Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
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>Killing people for Dahlia doesn't seem like lending any power at all. The power is all still Alessa's.
Dahlia uses Alessa's power vicariously. She demands her daughter kill someone, Alessa does. The anti-drug mayor that died mysteriously? Alessa did that. Officer Gucci's mysterious heart attack? Alessa, too. The other mysterious deaths around town? Yeah, Alessa.

Alessa was originally raised to be a priestess like Dahlia. Then Dahlia realized Alessa could potentially be the Holy Mother the entire time. So she "impulsively carried out the ritual." Even Lisa tells us Dahlia went crazy after Alessa's immolation—not before.

Vincent doesn't despise anyone in the Order. After all: The members are feeding him all the money he could possibly desire.

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. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 25 Mar 2009
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Last seen at: Ann Arbor, Michigan
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Dahlia uses Alessa's power vicariously. She demands her daughter kill someone, Alessa does. The anti-drug mayor that died mysteriously? Alessa did that. Officer Gucci's mysterious heart attack? Alessa, too. The other mysterious deaths around town? Yeah, Alessa.


Makes sense. I like it.


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
That's not answering my question, though. If The Order has impregnated women before and failed, why is Alessa's case any different? Why would Dahlia randomly decide to blow off The Order on this one occasion and do things her way? If the Sect of the Holy Woman wants to see God reborn, wouldn't they have supported Dahlia in trying to birth it from Alessa by any means necessary? Don't they all have a stake in this? It seems that that's the main point of the Sect's existence.


Alessa has powers the other girls didn't, and apparently Dahlia was seeking personal power, so she conducted the immolation under her own terms, possibly so she wouldn't have to "split the bill", so to speak. Then everyone got kinda pissed that she did such a thing.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 25 Mar 2009
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This is kind of an off-topic question, but I can't justify starting another thread just to ask it: why did God kill Dahlia? Doesn't it owe her for nurturing it? Also, why did Dahlia seem to happy to have been killed by it? I thought she wanted to control it and use it to shape Silent Hill to her liking?


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Cafe5to2 Waitress
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Missing since: 27 Jan 2007
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AuraTwilight wrote:
Quote:
That's not answering my question, though. If The Order has impregnated women before and failed, why is Alessa's case any different? Why would Dahlia randomly decide to blow off The Order on this one occasion and do things her way? If the Sect of the Holy Woman wants to see God reborn, wouldn't they have supported Dahlia in trying to birth it from Alessa by any means necessary? Don't they all have a stake in this? It seems that that's the main point of the Sect's existence.


Alessa has powers the other girls didn't, and apparently Dahlia was seeking personal power, so she conducted the immolation under her own terms, possibly so she wouldn't have to "split the bill", so to speak. Then everyone got kinda pissed that she did such a thing.


Yeah, I kind of think that's more what she was thinking. If she did it herself then she wouldn't have to share the power.

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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 27 Aug 2003
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DamienPales wrote:
This is kind of an off-topic question, but I can't justify starting another thread just to ask it: why did God kill Dahlia? Doesn't it owe her for nurturing it? Also, why did Dahlia seem to happy to have been killed by it? I thought she wanted to control it and use it to shape Silent Hill to her liking?


I always thought it had to do with the fact that it was an abortive attempt, like in SH3. I'll admit this isn't really based on anything but speculation, as I've forgotten a lot of SH1 lore and facts over time, but the only time where the god kills Dahlia is when Kaufmann uses the Aglaophotis on it, right? I think that made it unstable.

Though of course there's the equal chance that the lightning bolt was just going haywire and hit her unintentionally, no conscious effort to kill required.

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I'm not dead yet, dammit.


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Rosewater Park Attendant
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Missing since: 25 Mar 2009
Notes left: 1345
Last seen at: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Quote:
I always thought it had to do with the fact that it was an abortive attempt, like in SH3. I'll admit this isn't really based on anything but speculation, as I've forgotten a lot of SH1 lore and facts over time, but the only time where the god kills Dahlia is when Kaufmann uses the Aglaophotis on it, right? I think that made it unstable.

Though of course there's the equal chance that the lightning bolt was just going haywire and hit her unintentionally, no conscious effort to kill required.


I agree that God might've been unstable, but its attacks were pretty specific. It's clearly aiming for Dahlia, and when Harry fights him afterwards, its attacks are also pretty accurate, so I doubt that the lightning is just randomly going nuts.

I don't know, that whole scene is the only thing in SH1 that I'm completely stumped about.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 30 Mar 2009
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DamienPales wrote:
Quote:
I always thought it had to do with the fact that it was an abortive attempt, like in SH3. I'll admit this isn't really based on anything but speculation, as I've forgotten a lot of SH1 lore and facts over time, but the only time where the god kills Dahlia is when Kaufmann uses the Aglaophotis on it, right? I think that made it unstable.

Though of course there's the equal chance that the lightning bolt was just going haywire and hit her unintentionally, no conscious effort to kill required.


I agree that God might've been unstable, but its attacks were pretty specific. It's clearly aiming for Dahlia, and when Harry fights him afterwards, its attacks are also pretty accurate, so I doubt that the lightning is just randomly going nuts.

I don't know, that whole scene is the only thing in SH1 that I'm completely stumped about.



I had always assumed that, being birthed from Alessa, the god carried over some of Alessa's own hatred for Dahlia. That essentially the god kills Dahlia as some form of revenge for the mistreatment of it's mother.

Or it might just be that the god they birthed was not what they had imagined it would be; that being born from such suffering had made it a malicious creation that killed indiscriminately.

_________________
Too cold to start a fire
I'm burning diesel, burning dinosaur bones
I'll take the river down to still water
And ride a pack of dogs


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SHH Cult Subscriber
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Missing since: 22 Apr 2006
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Last seen at: Traversing the Portals of Reality
>I had always assumed that, being birthed from Alessa, the god carried over some of Alessa's own hatred for Dahlia.

Only Alessa doesn't hate her mother. She loves her and just wants to be with her. As we see in the scene in the Gillespie house just before the final battle.

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Under the burning sun I take a look around / Imagine if this all came down.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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You're probably right, I never could tell what Alessa's thoughts regarding Dahlia were. That said, the scene in the house is something that occurred before Dahlia burned Alessa alive, impregnated her with a god and then used a magic spell to keep her living whilst in agony until the god could finally be born. That's the sort of thing that could change your opinion towards somebody, even your own mother.

_________________
Too cold to start a fire
I'm burning diesel, burning dinosaur bones
I'll take the river down to still water
And ride a pack of dogs


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Historical Society Historian
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Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
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Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
This is kind of an off-topic question, but I can't justify starting another thread just to ask it: why did God kill Dahlia? Doesn't it owe her for nurturing it? Also, why did Dahlia seem to happy to have been killed by it? I thought she wanted to control it and use it to shape Silent Hill to her liking?


God's purpose was to kill everything and make a world of eternal night and death (nothingness). Dahlia's apparently of the mindset that killing everything will release everything from suffering.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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Moderator
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Missing since: 21 Jul 2003
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No, Dahlia wasn't out to alleviate the suffering of mankind or anything quite so noble. Don't confuse her with Claudia. Dahlia wanted power. I think Dahlia had some deluded belief that she would be able to control God once manifested, likely through hopes that Alessa's feelings for her would remain and allow Dahlia to manipulate God by proxy.

_________________
"I dreamt last night I saw you
A single spark explosion negotiating with the dead
By the bright lights in some ICU on my chest you put your head
and said "There you are.
There you are.
There's my heart..."


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SHH Cult Subscriber
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Missing since: 22 Apr 2006
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Droo wrote:
I think Dahlia had some deluded belief that she would be able to control God once manifested, likely through hopes that Alessa's feelings for her would remain and allow Dahlia to manipulate God by proxy.


That was the way I saw it as well.

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Under the burning sun I take a look around / Imagine if this all came down.


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SHH Cult Subscriber
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Missing since: 08 Jan 2006
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Manipulate God to do what? Its purpose was pretty unambiguous: cleanse the world. Dahlia's maniacal laughter right before her deity strikes her dead had me pretty convinced that she considered total obliteration a win.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 30 Mar 2009
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JuriDawn wrote:
Manipulate God to do what?


To harness it's power and use it for own ends, whatever those might have been.

_________________
Too cold to start a fire
I'm burning diesel, burning dinosaur bones
I'll take the river down to still water
And ride a pack of dogs


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SHH Cult Subscriber
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Missing since: 08 Jan 2006
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You realize that's not really an answer, right? I'm asking for what ends could she possibly need the assistance of the Destroyer of Mankind besides destroying mankind?

The god is about as multipurpose as a nuclear warhead.


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Woodside Apartments Janitor
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Missing since: 30 Mar 2009
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But the god that she had intended to birth also had the power to create. This is a god that created time, that seperate light and darkness, that brought people joy where there was none. I'd call that pretty multipurpose.

_________________
Too cold to start a fire
I'm burning diesel, burning dinosaur bones
I'll take the river down to still water
And ride a pack of dogs


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SHH Cult Subscriber
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Missing since: 08 Jan 2006
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You do remember Dahlia's extensive "The time is neigh" speech, right? She spells it all out for you. "Time to end this bitch."


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Historical Society Historian
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Also, the God of the Order isn't hailed as a Creator of the universe. The universe, according to their mythology, seems to have predated God's birth, and her only real actions were giving people death.

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BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


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