Search FAQ

Login | Register


All times are UTC [ DST ]


It is currently 13 Dec 2019




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 114 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message

Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 25 Mar 2009
Notes left: 1345
Last seen at: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Quote:
That's possible, but I think she meant they literally moved away. If they disappeared, I think she would have said so. When people disappear in a small town the people of the town don't assume they moved away.


This was kind of how I interpreted her comment: "After the young people moved away, The Order thought they had been taken away by the Gods. Apparently, people used to be taken away by the Gods all the time." I agree with you that the young people got weirded out by The Order and went somewhere less crazy, but before that, it wasn't uncommon for people to randomly disappear. Before Alessa, maybe other people could influence Silent Hill in the same way Alessa eventually would, but that's getting into highly speculative waters, so I'll just stop there.

Quote:
If the town was abandoned, that would kind of disqualify it as a prime vacation spot. I can't imagine James and Mary checking in an abandoned hotel and hanging out pretending it wasn't.


Well, the town does call out to people in strange ways. But like I said, the town will show you what you subconsciously want to see. So if you go to Silent Hill looking for a nice vacation, it will give you a nice vacation. If you go to Silent Hill looking a nice place to live, it will give you a nice place to live. If you go to Silent Hill looking for punishment because you killed your wife, well...that's another story.

Quote:
Laura never mentions seeing other people while in Silent Hill, none that James doesn't meet himself anyway. She simply doesn't see the monsters, and likely not the physical obstacles, that James encounters.


We'll never really know what Laura actually sees, but it can't be anything too crazy or else she wouldn't be so calm and composed. Whether she sees people or not is interesting fodder for debate, but I think it's safe to say she sees a relatively normal-looking town.

I have my own theory about Laura that would probably help elucidate my purposely vague comments, but this isn't the Silent Hill 2 board.

Quote:
It could perhaps be, though Alessa does appear outside of the dark Otherworld. Several times.


When? I don't remember any. :(


Top
   
 

Moderator
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
Notes left: 11052
Last seen at: In the anals of forum history
DamienPales wrote:
This was kind of how I interpreted her comment: "After the young people moved away, The Order thought they had been taken away by the Gods. Apparently, people used to be taken away by the Gods all the time." I agree with you that the young people got weirded out by The Order and went somewhere less crazy, but before that, it wasn't uncommon for people to randomly disappear. Before Alessa, maybe other people could influence Silent Hill in the same way Alessa eventually would, but that's getting into highly speculative waters, so I'll just stop there.


I think Silent Hill 4 touched on this some, because it was the only game in which you see the outside world interacting with those who visit the Otherworld. In that game, the victims who died in the Otherworld also died in the real world, and found by people there. Though the nature of Walter's and Alessa's Otherworlds may be different, I don't assume this is so as it is not explicitly stated, and as such, I don't think people really do physically disappear when they enter the Otherworld. Certainly it doesn't always work like that.

Quote:
Well, the town does call out to people in strange ways. But like I said, the town will show you what you subconsciously want to see. So if you go to Silent Hill looking for a nice vacation, it will give you a nice vacation. If you go to Silent Hill looking a nice place to live, it will give you a nice place to live. If you go to Silent Hill looking for punishment because you killed your wife, well...that's another story.


This isn't disprovable, but it does seem a little disingenuous, because the Otherworld isn't limited only to the Silent Hill area.

Quote:
We'll never really know what Laura actually sees, but it can't be anything too crazy or else she wouldn't be so calm and composed. Whether she sees people or not is interesting fodder for debate, but I think it's safe to say she sees a relatively normal-looking town.

I have my own theory about Laura that would probably help elucidate my purposely vague comments, but this isn't the Silent Hill 2 board.


I'm pretty sure she doesn't, because she appears often in places where real people might question her presence (i.e., the patient wing of a mental hospital). There's also the fact that she's in a Lakeview Hotel which, in reality, is nothing but a burnt husk of a building.

Quote:
When? I don't remember any. :(


It happens thrice.

3. After Harry defeats the boss in the school, he sees Alessa as the Otherworld disappears. She disappears only after the transition is complete.

2. He chases Cheryl down that treacherous alleyway.

and of course

1. Her appearance in the middle of the road kind of predicates the entire game D=

_________________
Image


Top
   
 

Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 25 Mar 2009
Notes left: 1345
Last seen at: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Quote:
This isn't disprovable, but it does seem a little disingenuous, because the Otherworld isn't limited only to the Silent Hill area.


I assume you're referring to Silent Hill 3 and 4. I think those cases are a bit different than what's happening in Silent Hill 1, because in those games it's somebody reaching out beyond Silent Hill by way of influence. In Silent Hill 3, it's Claudia trying to bring Heather into the town. In Silent Hill 4, it's Walter trying to bring "his mother" (wink wink) into the town.

Quote:
I'm pretty sure she doesn't, because she appears often in places where real people might question her presence (i.e., the patient wing of a mental hospital). There's also the fact that she's in a Lakeview Hotel which, in reality, is nothing but a burnt husk of a building.


Like I said, I have my own theory about Laura that explains all these inconsistencies, but I can't really talk too much about it in the Silent Hill 1 board.

To make it short and sweet: Laura isn't real. That's all I'll say about that here.

Quote:
It happens thrice.

3. After Harry defeats the boss in the school, he sees Alessa as the Otherworld disappears. She disappears only after the transition is complete.

2. He chases Cheryl down that treacherous alleyway.

and of course

1. Her appearance in the middle of the road kind of predicates the entire game D=


3. I thought it was more of Alessa transitioning out along with the rest of the town. She seems to disappear with the Otherworld, not after it has already disappeared.

2. I kind of think that was just a dream Harry had, not a real event. It seems like tradition for most Silent Hill games to begin with a dream, and on extra playthroughs, you end up skipping that whole part of the game in its entirety similar to how you skip Heather's dream on extra playthroughs of SH3.

1. You mean when Cheryl is on the sidewalk right after Harry gets out of his Jeep? Or when Cybil sees her walking on thin air before the antique shop?


Top
   
 

Moderator
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
Notes left: 11052
Last seen at: In the anals of forum history
DamienPales wrote:
I assume you're referring to Silent Hill 3 and 4. I think those cases are a bit different than what's happening in Silent Hill 1, because in those games it's somebody reaching out beyond Silent Hill by way of influence. In Silent Hill 3, it's Claudia trying to bring Heather into the town. In Silent Hill 4, it's Walter trying to bring "his mother" (wink wink) into the town.


Well, that's why I think it can't be proven either way, because we simply don't know enough about the mechanics of this phenomena to say for sure.

Quote:
I'm pretty sure she doesn't, because she appears often in places where real people might question her presence (i.e., the patient wing of a mental hospital). There's also the fact that she's in a Lakeview Hotel which, in reality, is nothing but a burnt husk of a building.


Like I said, I have my own theory about Laura that explains all these inconsistencies, but I can't really talk too much about it in the Silent Hill 1 board.

To make it short and sweet: Laura isn't real. That's all I'll say about that here.[/quote]

I'm pretty sure that some official source or other states that Laura came to Silent Hill with Eddie. I'm sure someone else here can verify this (or make me look the fool for the third time today).

Quote:
3. I thought it was more of Alessa transitioning out along with the rest of the town. She seems to disappear with the Otherworld, not after it has already disappeared.


Eh.

Quote:
2. I kind of think that was just a dream Harry had, not a real event. It seems like tradition for most Silent Hill games to begin with a dream, and on extra playthroughs, you end up skipping that whole part of the game in its entirety similar to how you skip Heather's dream on extra playthroughs of SH3.


From the perspective of the storyline, I assume that event is as real as any other in the game. I don't think the characters relive the experience.

Quote:
1. You mean when Cheryl is on the sidewalk right after Harry gets out of his Jeep? Or when Cybil sees her walking on thin air before the antique shop?


No, I mean how Harry wrecks his Jeep because he thinks he's about to turn her into a thin paste on the asphalt.

_________________
Image


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11384
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Laura is real. If not, then we have no reason to assume James is wrong about the time Mary died, and thus no reason for James to confront that he killed her. Nor would that explain why Mary wrote Laura a letter, why Eddie brought her to town and can talk to her, and why, like Eddie, Maria tries to avoid being in Laura's eyesight.

Laura's real. It's a fact.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


Top
   
 

SHH Cult Subscriber
SHH Cult Subscriber
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 22 Apr 2006
Notes left: 629
Last seen at: Traversing the Portals of Reality
Furthermore, there is no way all of them manifested an innocent little girl named Laura.

_________________
Image
Read.
Under the burning sun I take a look around / Imagine if this all came down.


Top
   
 

Moderator
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 15 Apr 2004
Notes left: 11052
Last seen at: In the anals of forum history
Well, to be fair, Angela never interacts with Laura. Of course, Angela never explicitly interacts with anyone besides James.

But the point is a good one.

_________________
Image


Top
   
 

Just Passing Through
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 05 Nov 2008
Notes left: 59
Last seen at: Louisiana
MMY wrote:
There has been supplementary material published for the Silent Hill series since 1999. In fact, each of the first 4 games had their own guides—Lost Memories: Silent Hill Chronicle is just the most popular one b/c of the translation Web sites.


hmmm, what were the names of the guides for 3 and 4?

_________________
When I become the voice of reason, you know reason is in deep $%*#ing trouble.


Top
   
 

Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 25 Mar 2009
Notes left: 1345
Last seen at: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Quote:
If not, then we have no reason to assume James is wrong about the time Mary died, and thus no reason for James to confront that he killed her.


James always knew she died recently, he just decided to block it out of his mind until he could no longer lie to himself. The whole game is James' path toward acceptance and repentance. Laura was his way of externalizing his guilt, which is why she's so mean to him throughout the game.

Quote:
Nor would that explain why Mary wrote Laura a letter


I believe that Laura is based on a real person, the same way that Maria is based on a real person. But Maria and Laura as they are represented in SH2 are not real, just manifestations of people James knew when he visited Silent Hill. Laura was supposedly in the hospital with Mary, so why would she be released from the hospital so soon after Mary died?

As for the letter, it's probably as fake as the one James received. There are huge problems with the letter she has, especially since Mary is writing it after she's already dead, which is kind of impossible if Laura was a real girl who received an actual letter from Mary. The letters are only to lead James in the right direction. A Letter From Silent Heaven, just like the first one.

Quote:
why Eddie brought her to town and can talk to her


So Eddie can talk to her. Maria can talk with Ernest Baldwin and Maria is still a fake. The point is that Laura is a physical presence in the town, just like Eddie's victims (while summoned by the town) are physical presences that James can see. As soon as James accepts the truth, Laura disappears and is never heard from again. Her role is complete.

Quote:
and why, like Eddie, Maria tries to avoid being in Laura's eyesight.


No, she doesn't. As a matter of fact, Maria chases after Laura when she runs out of the bowling alley. She spends quite a bit of time trying to tell James to follow Laura, and even expressing some kind of maternal instinct to care for Laura, which I don't think she'd do if she was trying to avoid Laura.

Laura, of course, can't see Maria because Maria is a monster. Laura can't see monsters. Which is why she doesn't respond when Maria chases after her in the alley.


Top
   
 

Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject:

Missing since: 12 Jan 2008
Notes left: 1323
Last seen at: Minnesota
DamienPales wrote:
Quote:

So Eddie can talk to her. Maria can talk with Ernest Baldwin and Maria is still a fake. The point is that Laura is a physical presence in the town, just like Eddie's victims (while summoned by the town) are physical presences that James can see. As soon as James accepts the truth, Laura disappears and is never heard from again. Her role is complete.


Leave ending?


Top
   
 

Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 25 Mar 2009
Notes left: 1345
Last seen at: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Quote:
Leave ending?


Boy, I really don't want to wade into that controversy. Officially, any of the endings could have conceivably happened. So in that case, the "Maria" ending could've happened as well, even though Maria is a manifestation.

I think that just because something is manifested in Silent Hill doesn't mean they have to stay in Silent Hill necessarily. Heather had God inside of her from when it was manifested in Silent Hill, and she was able to take it to Portland, Maine.

So if the Leave ending is accepted as the valid ending, then Laura doesn't disappear after the revelation since James still has a desire to live after repenting. All Laura wants is for James to repent, and then she has no reason to make him feel guilty anymore. In many ways, Laura is Maria's opposite. Laura represents the path of repentance and forgiveness, while Maria represents the path of stubbornness and hedonism.

Of course, I believe that "In Water" was the ending that happened, though I acknowledge that any ending is as valid as any other.

EDIT: Also, was I the only one to notice that Laura has no last name, just like Maria? I know that it's not proof of anything in and of itself, but Angela and Eddie both have last names even though they don't say their full names in the game itself. As a matter of fact, every character in Silent Hill has a last name except for Maria (because she doesn't exist and doesn't have one) and Laura...so maybe Laura doesn't exist and therefore doesn't have one either.


Top
   
 

RESPECT
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
. . . Or maybe Laura's an orphan and doesn't feel compelled to introduce herself by her full, and thus fabricated, name to Eddie.

_________________
This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


Top
   
 

Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 25 Mar 2009
Notes left: 1345
Last seen at: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Quote:
. . . Or maybe Laura's an orphan and doesn't feel compelled to introduce herself by her full, and thus fabricated, name to Eddie.


But none of the characters introduce themselves by their full name, and yet we know that it's Angela Orosco and Eddie Dombrowski because of the instruction manual. I just found it odd that the developers would fail to give Laura a last name when they give everyone else one.

I confess it's not proof of anything, I was just pointing it out.


Top
   
 

RESPECT
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 19 Jul 2003
Notes left: 19401
Last seen at: #lfk
We know Angela and Eddie's last names b/c of the catacombs.

_________________
This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.


Top
   
 

Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject:

Missing since: 12 Jan 2008
Notes left: 1323
Last seen at: Minnesota
Oh, man, we're WAY off topic.
Let's keep talking about SH1, okay?


Top
   
 

SHH Cult Subscriber
SHH Cult Subscriber
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 22 Apr 2006
Notes left: 629
Last seen at: Traversing the Portals of Reality
While a tangent, it was still relevant to the overall topic. That being said, what issue is left to discuss?

_________________
Image
Read.
Under the burning sun I take a look around / Imagine if this all came down.


Top
   
 

Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 25 Mar 2009
Notes left: 1345
Last seen at: Ann Arbor, Michigan
The original thread topic is still up for debate. I'm still up for explanations on what happened to The Order, since only a few of them seem to be left. Lisa said that Silent Hill used to be full of them. I theorized that the bodies Harry sees are the members of The Order that Alessa got rid of. Some people had said they disagreed, but I'm interested in alternative theories of what caused The Order to shrink to such small numbers if Alessa didn't off them.


Top
   
 

Historical Society Historian
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 01 Aug 2006
Notes left: 11384
Last seen at: I'm here, and waiting for you
Quote:
James always knew she died recently, he just decided to block it out of his mind until he could no longer lie to himself. The whole game is James' path toward acceptance and repentance. Laura was his way of externalizing his guilt, which is why she's so mean to him throughout the game.


Yea, but unless Laura is a real person, we have no narrative device to shed light on objectively true events. It's just one guy going crazy and then deciding later not to be crazy. Or not. We can't know.

Quote:
I believe that Laura is based on a real person, the same way that Maria is based on a real person. But Maria and Laura as they are represented in SH2 are not real, just manifestations of people James knew when he visited Silent Hill. Laura was supposedly in the hospital with Mary, so why would she be released from the hospital so soon after Mary died?


James and Laura never met. What Laura knows of James is information Mary fed her.

Quote:
As for the letter, it's probably as fake as the one James received. There are huge problems with the letter she has, especially since Mary is writing it after she's already dead, which is kind of impossible if Laura was a real girl who received an actual letter from Mary. The letters are only to lead James in the right direction. A Letter From Silent Heaven, just like the first one.


The letters were written before Mary died and issued posthumously, except for James' letter in the beginning, which is an abridged fabrication of the letter he actually received.

Quote:
So Eddie can talk to her. Maria can talk with Ernest Baldwin and Maria is still a fake. The point is that Laura is a physical presence in the town, just like Eddie's victims (while summoned by the town) are physical presences that James can see. As soon as James accepts the truth, Laura disappears and is never heard from again. Her role is complete.


Ernest is also a ghost who somehow has the deus ex machina ability to figure out Maria's real nature through ESP or some bullshit. Also, Leave ending.

Quote:
No, she doesn't. As a matter of fact, Maria chases after Laura when she runs out of the bowling alley. She spends quite a bit of time trying to tell James to follow Laura, and even expressing some kind of maternal instinct to care for Laura, which I don't think she'd do if she was trying to avoid Laura.

Laura, of course, can't see Maria because Maria is a monster. Laura can't see monsters. Which is why she doesn't respond when Maria chases after her in the alley.


She chases after her, but doesn't make herself known. She's conveniently always lagging behind, and has to "lie down" and take a break a few minutes before James finds Laura. Laura can't see Maria because she's not real, because Laura IS.

Quote:
I think that just because something is manifested in Silent Hill doesn't mean they have to stay in Silent Hill necessarily. Heather had God inside of her from when it was manifested in Silent Hill, and she was able to take it to Portland, Maine.


The difference being that God was inside her mind, and thus pretty much imaginary, unlike Maria would be.

Quote:
Some people had said they disagreed, but I'm interested in alternative theories of what caused The Order to shrink to such small numbers if Alessa didn't off them.


The cult was naturally waning at the time of SH1, and Dahlia was a cooky radical with very few people on her side. after that, decades pass as the cult wanes some more, then Claudia revives it, uses some members as soldiers, then she dies and the cult falls apart.

_________________
BlackFire2 wrote:
I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.


Top
   
 

Cafe5to2 Waitress
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 27 Jan 2007
Notes left: 274
Last seen at: Ry'leh
I'd imagine some of them lost interest after they started realizing they weren't going to get immediate power like Dahlia promised them.

_________________
Are you ready to begin your trip to the Otherside
Death is an old friend of mine


Top
   
 

Rosewater Park Attendant
 Post subject:
     
         
  User avatar  
     
     

Missing since: 25 Mar 2009
Notes left: 1345
Last seen at: Ann Arbor, Michigan
I'm going to leave the Silent Hill 2 theorizing to the Silent Hill 2 board. There's doubtless a thread about Laura in there already.

Quote:
The cult was naturally waning at the time of SH1, and Dahlia was a cooky radical with very few people on her side. after that, decades pass as the cult wanes some more, then Claudia revives it, uses some members as soldiers, then she dies and the cult falls apart.


I thought from Silent Hill 3 or 4 it was revealed that Dahlia was a leader of The Order with quite a bit of influence and power. Do you think maybe after the fire, The Order decided that enough was enough?


Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 114 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: