The Bodies In Silent Hill

Have you seen Harry's daughter anywhere? Short, dark hair?

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
DamienPales
Rosewater Park Attendant
Posts: 1345
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan

Post by DamienPales »

That's possible, but I think she meant they literally moved away. If they disappeared, I think she would have said so. When people disappear in a small town the people of the town don't assume they moved away.
This was kind of how I interpreted her comment: "After the young people moved away, The Order thought they had been taken away by the Gods. Apparently, people used to be taken away by the Gods all the time." I agree with you that the young people got weirded out by The Order and went somewhere less crazy, but before that, it wasn't uncommon for people to randomly disappear. Before Alessa, maybe other people could influence Silent Hill in the same way Alessa eventually would, but that's getting into highly speculative waters, so I'll just stop there.
If the town was abandoned, that would kind of disqualify it as a prime vacation spot. I can't imagine James and Mary checking in an abandoned hotel and hanging out pretending it wasn't.
Well, the town does call out to people in strange ways. But like I said, the town will show you what you subconsciously want to see. So if you go to Silent Hill looking for a nice vacation, it will give you a nice vacation. If you go to Silent Hill looking a nice place to live, it will give you a nice place to live. If you go to Silent Hill looking for punishment because you killed your wife, well...that's another story.
Laura never mentions seeing other people while in Silent Hill, none that James doesn't meet himself anyway. She simply doesn't see the monsters, and likely not the physical obstacles, that James encounters.
We'll never really know what Laura actually sees, but it can't be anything too crazy or else she wouldn't be so calm and composed. Whether she sees people or not is interesting fodder for debate, but I think it's safe to say she sees a relatively normal-looking town.

I have my own theory about Laura that would probably help elucidate my purposely vague comments, but this isn't the Silent Hill 2 board.
It could perhaps be, though Alessa does appear outside of the dark Otherworld. Several times.
When? I don't remember any. :(
User avatar
alone in the town
Historical Society Historian
Posts: 11107
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Gender: Male
Location: In the anals of forum history
Contact:

Post by alone in the town »

DamienPales wrote:This was kind of how I interpreted her comment: "After the young people moved away, The Order thought they had been taken away by the Gods. Apparently, people used to be taken away by the Gods all the time." I agree with you that the young people got weirded out by The Order and went somewhere less crazy, but before that, it wasn't uncommon for people to randomly disappear. Before Alessa, maybe other people could influence Silent Hill in the same way Alessa eventually would, but that's getting into highly speculative waters, so I'll just stop there.
I think Silent Hill 4 touched on this some, because it was the only game in which you see the outside world interacting with those who visit the Otherworld. In that game, the victims who died in the Otherworld also died in the real world, and found by people there. Though the nature of Walter's and Alessa's Otherworlds may be different, I don't assume this is so as it is not explicitly stated, and as such, I don't think people really do physically disappear when they enter the Otherworld. Certainly it doesn't always work like that.
Well, the town does call out to people in strange ways. But like I said, the town will show you what you subconsciously want to see. So if you go to Silent Hill looking for a nice vacation, it will give you a nice vacation. If you go to Silent Hill looking a nice place to live, it will give you a nice place to live. If you go to Silent Hill looking for punishment because you killed your wife, well...that's another story.
This isn't disprovable, but it does seem a little disingenuous, because the Otherworld isn't limited only to the Silent Hill area.
We'll never really know what Laura actually sees, but it can't be anything too crazy or else she wouldn't be so calm and composed. Whether she sees people or not is interesting fodder for debate, but I think it's safe to say she sees a relatively normal-looking town.

I have my own theory about Laura that would probably help elucidate my purposely vague comments, but this isn't the Silent Hill 2 board.
I'm pretty sure she doesn't, because she appears often in places where real people might question her presence (i.e., the patient wing of a mental hospital). There's also the fact that she's in a Lakeview Hotel which, in reality, is nothing but a burnt husk of a building.
When? I don't remember any. :(
It happens thrice.

3. After Harry defeats the boss in the school, he sees Alessa as the Otherworld disappears. She disappears only after the transition is complete.

2. He chases Cheryl down that treacherous alleyway.

and of course

1. Her appearance in the middle of the road kind of predicates the entire game D=
Image
User avatar
DamienPales
Rosewater Park Attendant
Posts: 1345
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan

Post by DamienPales »

This isn't disprovable, but it does seem a little disingenuous, because the Otherworld isn't limited only to the Silent Hill area.
I assume you're referring to Silent Hill 3 and 4. I think those cases are a bit different than what's happening in Silent Hill 1, because in those games it's somebody reaching out beyond Silent Hill by way of influence. In Silent Hill 3, it's Claudia trying to bring Heather into the town. In Silent Hill 4, it's Walter trying to bring "his mother" (wink wink) into the town.
I'm pretty sure she doesn't, because she appears often in places where real people might question her presence (i.e., the patient wing of a mental hospital). There's also the fact that she's in a Lakeview Hotel which, in reality, is nothing but a burnt husk of a building.
Like I said, I have my own theory about Laura that explains all these inconsistencies, but I can't really talk too much about it in the Silent Hill 1 board.

To make it short and sweet: Laura isn't real. That's all I'll say about that here.
It happens thrice.

3. After Harry defeats the boss in the school, he sees Alessa as the Otherworld disappears. She disappears only after the transition is complete.

2. He chases Cheryl down that treacherous alleyway.

and of course

1. Her appearance in the middle of the road kind of predicates the entire game D=
3. I thought it was more of Alessa transitioning out along with the rest of the town. She seems to disappear with the Otherworld, not after it has already disappeared.

2. I kind of think that was just a dream Harry had, not a real event. It seems like tradition for most Silent Hill games to begin with a dream, and on extra playthroughs, you end up skipping that whole part of the game in its entirety similar to how you skip Heather's dream on extra playthroughs of SH3.

1. You mean when Cheryl is on the sidewalk right after Harry gets out of his Jeep? Or when Cybil sees her walking on thin air before the antique shop?
User avatar
alone in the town
Historical Society Historian
Posts: 11107
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Gender: Male
Location: In the anals of forum history
Contact:

Post by alone in the town »

DamienPales wrote:I assume you're referring to Silent Hill 3 and 4. I think those cases are a bit different than what's happening in Silent Hill 1, because in those games it's somebody reaching out beyond Silent Hill by way of influence. In Silent Hill 3, it's Claudia trying to bring Heather into the town. In Silent Hill 4, it's Walter trying to bring "his mother" (wink wink) into the town.
Well, that's why I think it can't be proven either way, because we simply don't know enough about the mechanics of this phenomena to say for sure.
I'm pretty sure she doesn't, because she appears often in places where real people might question her presence (i.e., the patient wing of a mental hospital). There's also the fact that she's in a Lakeview Hotel which, in reality, is nothing but a burnt husk of a building.
Like I said, I have my own theory about Laura that explains all these inconsistencies, but I can't really talk too much about it in the Silent Hill 1 board.

To make it short and sweet: Laura isn't real. That's all I'll say about that here.[/quote]

I'm pretty sure that some official source or other states that Laura came to Silent Hill with Eddie. I'm sure someone else here can verify this (or make me look the fool for the third time today).
3. I thought it was more of Alessa transitioning out along with the rest of the town. She seems to disappear with the Otherworld, not after it has already disappeared.
Eh.
2. I kind of think that was just a dream Harry had, not a real event. It seems like tradition for most Silent Hill games to begin with a dream, and on extra playthroughs, you end up skipping that whole part of the game in its entirety similar to how you skip Heather's dream on extra playthroughs of SH3.
From the perspective of the storyline, I assume that event is as real as any other in the game. I don't think the characters relive the experience.
1. You mean when Cheryl is on the sidewalk right after Harry gets out of his Jeep? Or when Cybil sees her walking on thin air before the antique shop?
No, I mean how Harry wrecks his Jeep because he thinks he's about to turn her into a thin paste on the asphalt.
Image
User avatar
AuraTwilight
Historical Society Historian
Posts: 11390
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Location: I'm here, and waiting for you
Contact:

Post by AuraTwilight »

Laura is real. If not, then we have no reason to assume James is wrong about the time Mary died, and thus no reason for James to confront that he killed her. Nor would that explain why Mary wrote Laura a letter, why Eddie brought her to town and can talk to her, and why, like Eddie, Maria tries to avoid being in Laura's eyesight.

Laura's real. It's a fact.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
User avatar
jthomp1286
SHH Cult Subscriber
SHH Cult Subscriber
Posts: 638
Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Gender: Male
Location: Traversing the Portals of Reality
Contact:

Post by jthomp1286 »

Furthermore, there is no way all of them manifested an innocent little girl named Laura.
Under the burning sun I take a look around
Imagine if this all came down
User avatar
alone in the town
Historical Society Historian
Posts: 11107
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Gender: Male
Location: In the anals of forum history
Contact:

Post by alone in the town »

Well, to be fair, Angela never interacts with Laura. Of course, Angela never explicitly interacts with anyone besides James.

But the point is a good one.
Image
User avatar
AlessaChevalier
Just Passing Through
Posts: 59
Joined: 05 Nov 2008
Location: Louisiana

Post by AlessaChevalier »

MMY wrote:There has been supplementary material published for the Silent Hill series since 1999. In fact, each of the first 4 games had their own guides—Lost Memories: Silent Hill Chronicle is just the most popular one b/c of the translation Web sites.
hmmm, what were the names of the guides for 3 and 4?
When I become the voice of reason, you know reason is in deep $%*#ing trouble.
User avatar
DamienPales
Rosewater Park Attendant
Posts: 1345
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan

Post by DamienPales »

If not, then we have no reason to assume James is wrong about the time Mary died, and thus no reason for James to confront that he killed her.
James always knew she died recently, he just decided to block it out of his mind until he could no longer lie to himself. The whole game is James' path toward acceptance and repentance. Laura was his way of externalizing his guilt, which is why she's so mean to him throughout the game.
Nor would that explain why Mary wrote Laura a letter
I believe that Laura is based on a real person, the same way that Maria is based on a real person. But Maria and Laura as they are represented in SH2 are not real, just manifestations of people James knew when he visited Silent Hill. Laura was supposedly in the hospital with Mary, so why would she be released from the hospital so soon after Mary died?

As for the letter, it's probably as fake as the one James received. There are huge problems with the letter she has, especially since Mary is writing it after she's already dead, which is kind of impossible if Laura was a real girl who received an actual letter from Mary. The letters are only to lead James in the right direction. A Letter From Silent Heaven, just like the first one.
why Eddie brought her to town and can talk to her
So Eddie can talk to her. Maria can talk with Ernest Baldwin and Maria is still a fake. The point is that Laura is a physical presence in the town, just like Eddie's victims (while summoned by the town) are physical presences that James can see. As soon as James accepts the truth, Laura disappears and is never heard from again. Her role is complete.
and why, like Eddie, Maria tries to avoid being in Laura's eyesight.
No, she doesn't. As a matter of fact, Maria chases after Laura when she runs out of the bowling alley. She spends quite a bit of time trying to tell James to follow Laura, and even expressing some kind of maternal instinct to care for Laura, which I don't think she'd do if she was trying to avoid Laura.

Laura, of course, can't see Maria because Maria is a monster. Laura can't see monsters. Which is why she doesn't respond when Maria chases after her in the alley.
Video Gamer
Rosewater Park Attendant
Posts: 1323
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Location: Minnesota

Post by Video Gamer »

DamienPales wrote:

So Eddie can talk to her. Maria can talk with Ernest Baldwin and Maria is still a fake. The point is that Laura is a physical presence in the town, just like Eddie's victims (while summoned by the town) are physical presences that James can see. As soon as James accepts the truth, Laura disappears and is never heard from again. Her role is complete.
Leave ending?
User avatar
DamienPales
Rosewater Park Attendant
Posts: 1345
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan

Post by DamienPales »

Leave ending?
Boy, I really don't want to wade into that controversy. Officially, any of the endings could have conceivably happened. So in that case, the "Maria" ending could've happened as well, even though Maria is a manifestation.

I think that just because something is manifested in Silent Hill doesn't mean they have to stay in Silent Hill necessarily. Heather had God inside of her from when it was manifested in Silent Hill, and she was able to take it to Portland, Maine.

So if the Leave ending is accepted as the valid ending, then Laura doesn't disappear after the revelation since James still has a desire to live after repenting. All Laura wants is for James to repent, and then she has no reason to make him feel guilty anymore. In many ways, Laura is Maria's opposite. Laura represents the path of repentance and forgiveness, while Maria represents the path of stubbornness and hedonism.

Of course, I believe that "In Water" was the ending that happened, though I acknowledge that any ending is as valid as any other.

EDIT: Also, was I the only one to notice that Laura has no last name, just like Maria? I know that it's not proof of anything in and of itself, but Angela and Eddie both have last names even though they don't say their full names in the game itself. As a matter of fact, every character in Silent Hill has a last name except for Maria (because she doesn't exist and doesn't have one) and Laura...so maybe Laura doesn't exist and therefore doesn't have one either.
User avatar
The Adversary
RESPECT
Posts: 20086
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Location: #lfk
Contact:

Post by The Adversary »

. . . Or maybe Laura's an orphan and doesn't feel compelled to introduce herself by her full, and thus fabricated, name to Eddie.
This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.
User avatar
DamienPales
Rosewater Park Attendant
Posts: 1345
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan

Post by DamienPales »

. . . Or maybe Laura's an orphan and doesn't feel compelled to introduce herself by her full, and thus fabricated, name to Eddie.
But none of the characters introduce themselves by their full name, and yet we know that it's Angela Orosco and Eddie Dombrowski because of the instruction manual. I just found it odd that the developers would fail to give Laura a last name when they give everyone else one.

I confess it's not proof of anything, I was just pointing it out.
User avatar
The Adversary
RESPECT
Posts: 20086
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Location: #lfk
Contact:

Post by The Adversary »

We know Angela and Eddie's last names b/c of the catacombs.
This post is the property of its author and is not to be used elsewhere without explicit permission from the author.

. . . AND THAT'S THAT.
Video Gamer
Rosewater Park Attendant
Posts: 1323
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Location: Minnesota

Post by Video Gamer »

Oh, man, we're WAY off topic.
Let's keep talking about SH1, okay?
User avatar
jthomp1286
SHH Cult Subscriber
SHH Cult Subscriber
Posts: 638
Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Gender: Male
Location: Traversing the Portals of Reality
Contact:

Post by jthomp1286 »

While a tangent, it was still relevant to the overall topic. That being said, what issue is left to discuss?
Under the burning sun I take a look around
Imagine if this all came down
User avatar
DamienPales
Rosewater Park Attendant
Posts: 1345
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan

Post by DamienPales »

The original thread topic is still up for debate. I'm still up for explanations on what happened to The Order, since only a few of them seem to be left. Lisa said that Silent Hill used to be full of them. I theorized that the bodies Harry sees are the members of The Order that Alessa got rid of. Some people had said they disagreed, but I'm interested in alternative theories of what caused The Order to shrink to such small numbers if Alessa didn't off them.
User avatar
AuraTwilight
Historical Society Historian
Posts: 11390
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Location: I'm here, and waiting for you
Contact:

Post by AuraTwilight »

James always knew she died recently, he just decided to block it out of his mind until he could no longer lie to himself. The whole game is James' path toward acceptance and repentance. Laura was his way of externalizing his guilt, which is why she's so mean to him throughout the game.
Yea, but unless Laura is a real person, we have no narrative device to shed light on objectively true events. It's just one guy going crazy and then deciding later not to be crazy. Or not. We can't know.
I believe that Laura is based on a real person, the same way that Maria is based on a real person. But Maria and Laura as they are represented in SH2 are not real, just manifestations of people James knew when he visited Silent Hill. Laura was supposedly in the hospital with Mary, so why would she be released from the hospital so soon after Mary died?
James and Laura never met. What Laura knows of James is information Mary fed her.
As for the letter, it's probably as fake as the one James received. There are huge problems with the letter she has, especially since Mary is writing it after she's already dead, which is kind of impossible if Laura was a real girl who received an actual letter from Mary. The letters are only to lead James in the right direction. A Letter From Silent Heaven, just like the first one.
The letters were written before Mary died and issued posthumously, except for James' letter in the beginning, which is an abridged fabrication of the letter he actually received.
So Eddie can talk to her. Maria can talk with Ernest Baldwin and Maria is still a fake. The point is that Laura is a physical presence in the town, just like Eddie's victims (while summoned by the town) are physical presences that James can see. As soon as James accepts the truth, Laura disappears and is never heard from again. Her role is complete.
Ernest is also a ghost who somehow has the deus ex machina ability to figure out Maria's real nature through ESP or some bullshit. Also, Leave ending.
No, she doesn't. As a matter of fact, Maria chases after Laura when she runs out of the bowling alley. She spends quite a bit of time trying to tell James to follow Laura, and even expressing some kind of maternal instinct to care for Laura, which I don't think she'd do if she was trying to avoid Laura.

Laura, of course, can't see Maria because Maria is a monster. Laura can't see monsters. Which is why she doesn't respond when Maria chases after her in the alley.
She chases after her, but doesn't make herself known. She's conveniently always lagging behind, and has to "lie down" and take a break a few minutes before James finds Laura. Laura can't see Maria because she's not real, because Laura IS.
I think that just because something is manifested in Silent Hill doesn't mean they have to stay in Silent Hill necessarily. Heather had God inside of her from when it was manifested in Silent Hill, and she was able to take it to Portland, Maine.
The difference being that God was inside her mind, and thus pretty much imaginary, unlike Maria would be.
Some people had said they disagreed, but I'm interested in alternative theories of what caused The Order to shrink to such small numbers if Alessa didn't off them.
The cult was naturally waning at the time of SH1, and Dahlia was a cooky radical with very few people on her side. after that, decades pass as the cult wanes some more, then Claudia revives it, uses some members as soldiers, then she dies and the cult falls apart.
[quote="BlackFire2"]I thought he meant the special powers of her vagina.[/quote]
User avatar
FatalFrame
Cafe5to2 Waitress
Posts: 274
Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Gender: Female
Location: Ry'leh

Post by FatalFrame »

I'd imagine some of them lost interest after they started realizing they weren't going to get immediate power like Dahlia promised them.
Are you ready to begin your trip to the Otherside
Death is an old friend of mine
User avatar
DamienPales
Rosewater Park Attendant
Posts: 1345
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan

Post by DamienPales »

I'm going to leave the Silent Hill 2 theorizing to the Silent Hill 2 board. There's doubtless a thread about Laura in there already.
The cult was naturally waning at the time of SH1, and Dahlia was a cooky radical with very few people on her side. after that, decades pass as the cult wanes some more, then Claudia revives it, uses some members as soldiers, then she dies and the cult falls apart.
I thought from Silent Hill 3 or 4 it was revealed that Dahlia was a leader of The Order with quite a bit of influence and power. Do you think maybe after the fire, The Order decided that enough was enough?
Post Reply