Lisa Garland

[Arsonist]

Lisa is talking about the puppets obviously as she's never left the hospital to check for anyone else outside. "Everyone else is dead" means that they were alive before.

The thing is, Lisa is no expert. She’s scared and she has no idea what’s going on. For that reason she isn’t the most reliable source.

She also states that she has no idea what happened to the staff “I must have gotten knocked out, when I came too, everyone else was gone.”

It could easily be her interpretation that they are dead, she doesn’t remember entering the otherworld, or what actually happened. Basically she remembers some of the stuff from the real world, waking up and hiding. I’d assume that the staff were living dead too if I didn’t understand the nature of the otherworld.

There is another problem with the idea that the staff members were real people attacked by parasites… Did Alessa exactly create one parasite per person? I find it strange that there are no extra parasites that failed to find a host, or any non-walking-dead staff members, killed by the possessed staff, due to not getting possessed themselves because of the lack of parasites. Alessa created everything just right, in an extremely controlling, premeditated fashion which seems a bit weird. There is no point in pulling in staff members or killing them, let alone creating one parasite for each in order for them to become her minions, she can create monsters when ever she feels like it after all, so why turn regular staff members into monsters?

Seems needlessly cruel and like too much of a trouble, especially considering she is running out of time.

Lisa's behavior up to the focal point is everything that a normal human would portray, but the end, she says that she was the "same as them" meaning that she was dead all along.

Not what I meant. I know she was killed prior to the events of SH1, my response was aimed at the claim that she is, quite literarily a walking corpse, rather then a ghost or a manifestation of Alessa’s memory.


As for the debate on how Lisa died, there are many possible scenarios, suicide, accidental overdose, murdered by Kaufmann… Killed by him or not, she has many reasons to drag him with her, he’s the one who got her addicted to drugs, drugs which ruined her life. And if he killed her directly or indirectly is irrelevant at this point.

[AuraTwilight]

There is another problem with the idea that the staff members were real people attacked by parasites… Did Alessa exactly create one parasite per person? I find it strange that there are no extra parasites that failed to find a host, or any non-walking-dead staff members, killed by the possessed staff, due to not getting possessed themselves because of the lack of parasites. Alessa created everything just right, in an extremely controlling, premeditated fashion which seems a bit weird. There is no point in pulling in staff members or killing them, let alone creating one parasite for each in order for them to become her minions, she can create monsters when ever she feels like it after all, so why turn regular staff members into monsters?

She's not really generating monsters on a conscious level. I assume that, working with the possession theory, she pulled across everyone worth attacking, and parasites were nearby to make the plunge before they could do anything and before they could be killed by other possessed. Obviously, there are parasites we don't see wandering around without hosts, since one gets Cybil.

[Burning Man]

The thing is, Lisa is no expert. She’s scared and she has no idea what’s going on. For that reason she isn’t the most reliable source.

Lisa is considered a reliable source on many levels.

Lisa is the one that explains to Harry about the history of the town, occult-like religion, and whom Alessa and Dahlia are. She's the one that gives instructions on how to get to Bachman Road remembering all the way back to her own childhood.

Lisa may have shown to be confused and forgetful in the beginning, but there's no reason to believe that the information she shares is false due to her state of the mind at that moment. In fact, it's through her that you learn a lot about Silent Hill.

She also states that she has no idea what happened to the staff “I must have gotten knocked out, when I came too, everyone else was gone.”

You're talking about when Harry met her for the first time. Even then, she might be shaken, but her information is not false. It's as how she remembers things at that moment.

The problem with your reasoning is that you can practically use the "they don't know what they're talking about" line on just about anyone. Somewhere you have to draw the line. Konami does well to give us indications that what one's saying is not true like Dahlia.

[Mis Krist.]

>Konami does well to give us indications that what one's saying is not true like Dahlia.

Yup, and like with Kaufmann in both SH1 and SH: Origins. Basically if the game wants you to mistrust or second guess what a character says, they'll hold your hand and lead you to that point.

[Droo]

Lisa is credible when it comes to the history of the town and such, things that she would actually know. As for the nature of the Puppet Nurses and her own status, she is far from an expert. She is not lying, but she is confused and scared. I don't put much stock in what these particular claims of hers.

[Burning Man]

>She is not lying, but she is confused and scared. I don't put much stock in what these particular claims of hers.

I think you're being selective. If we weren't supposed to take her words as far as her own status, then who's to say she isn't actually alive.

"Oh, Lisa says she's dead, but she's just confused and scared. She's actually alive!"

The "confused and scared" line works on virtually anything.

[Droo]

I think you misunderstand my meaning.

Lisa is reliable about Dahlia, Alessa, and the history of the town because these are things she actually knows about. Construct or Real Lisa, she is not in a position to be able to authoritatively determine what she actually is. There's a bunch of zombie nurses wandering around, she's seen them, so she lumps herself in with them because they, too, are nurses. That does not necessarily mean that Lisa is a Puppet Nurse, has a parasite, etc.

Lisa really can't be said to know for sure, and thus her statements that she's just like them need to be cautiously approached.

[Lostkitsune]

^So basically Lisa might have deluded herself into thinking that, if the rest of the staff became Puppet creatures than she must have too? Interesting, I never would have thought of it that way Droo

[Video Gamer]

I think you misunderstand my meaning.

Lisa is reliable about Dahlia, Alessa, and the history of the town because these are things she actually knows about. Construct or Real Lisa, she is not in a position to be able to authoritatively determine what she actually is. There's a bunch of zombie nurses wandering around, she's seen them, so she lumps herself in with them because they, too, are nurses. That does not necessarily mean that Lisa is a Puppet Nurse, has a parasite, etc.

Lisa really can't be said to know for sure, and thus her statements that she's just like them need to be cautiously approached.

So she might have convinced herself that she was a monster, and due to the nature of Silent Hill, turned into one?
Sends chills down my spine. I'm probably reading it wrong, but still. Creepy.

[Droo]

No. Lisa is not deluding herself into thinking she's a monster. She is a monster, but not the same as the Puppet Nurses. She sees them though and assumes she must be exactly the same as them, even though she's not. It's not a matter of delusion, it's just a confused and scared Lisa trying to make sense out of herself by comparing herself to the closest analogous creature.

[Lostkitsune]

@Droo:Thanks for explaining that, sorry I misunderstood! Great theory though Droo, it is really interesting!

[DamienPales]

Hmm...Interesting, but I don't really know if I buy that. If she's a monster, but not a Puppet Nurse, then what is she? And how did she become this monster?

I think she is a Puppet Nurse, but a special one, because Alessa wanted her to remain as human as possible. Therefore, Alessa made sure to keep Lisa from exploring the hospital and discovering her true nature (either through the Virun VII crest, or some other means we don't know about). Remember that Lisa explains to Harry that she's not allowed to leave the examination room? It isn't until Harry unleashes the Flauros on Alessa that Lisa is able to leave the room and discover the other nurses, because Alessa's power has now been nullified and she can no longer protect Lisa.

There are moments, though, when Lisa's true nature breaks through. When Harry shows up at the hospital right after Dahlia recaptures Alessa, Lisa looks really evil for a second, like as if she was fighting an uncontrollable urge to kill Harry or something. Watch that FMV again if you don't remember. It's really strange.

I have a question, though. When Harry discovers "the other church", he gets transported to the hospital for a second and has a conversation with Lisa. He asks her, "Hey, you don't look too good. Are you okay?" to which Lisa responds with "I'm fine. Nothing you need to worry about." Her response always intrigued me, because it seemed like she was holding something back. If anyone has any theories about what that might mean, then please opine.

[Droo]

I think I may have come up with a satisfactory explanation regarding Cybil's parasite.

The Puppet Nurses are representative of Alessa's view that the staff of the hospital are all puppets of the Order, though Kaufmann's being their superior.

Thus, once Cybil is sent by Dahlia to Lakeside, Cybil becomes a puppet of the Order, too, and bada bing bada boom parasite.

Thus it was Alessa who is ultimately responsible for it, but unconsciously.

[alone in the town]

In SH1, it was stated that Lisa was addicted to PTV (not White Claudia, that’s just the name of the plant which was used to create PTV)

It's nitpicking to remind people of this. Some real drugs are referred to by the plant whose product it is. Marijuana, cannabis. See any major difference?

I think, in this case, it would be more like saying 'Marijuana, hashish', which are two different end-products produced from a common source. PTV may be derived from White Claudia (and may not, is this ever solidly confirmed?), but it seems clear that they aren't intended to be the same thing.

[DamienPales]

I think I may have come up with a satisfactory explanation regarding Cybil's parasite.

The Puppet Nurses are representative of Alessa's view that the staff of the hospital are all puppets of the Order, though Kaufmann's being their superior.

Thus, once Cybil is sent by Dahlia to Lakeside, Cybil becomes a puppet of the Order, too, and bada bing bada boom parasite.

Thus it was Alessa who is ultimately responsible for it, but unconsciously.

I like this, but there's one problem. Why does Harry get to escape this fate, since he's arguably more a puppet of Dahlia than Cybil ever was? Harry never even sees one of these parasites in the flesh (not counting the one he sees if he aglaophotizes Cybil), so wouldn't he be affected as well?

[alone in the town]

He is Cheryl's daddy. Alessa/Cheryl might not care enough to stop monsters from attacking Harry, but perhaps even she wouldn't allow the man who raised her to suffer that kind of indignity.

Who knows?

[DamienPales]

He is Cheryl's daddy. Alessa/Cheryl might not care enough to stop monsters from attacking Harry, but perhaps even she wouldn't allow the man who raised her to suffer that kind of indignity.

Who knows?

Then why parasitize Cybil, knowing that Cybil would try to kill Harry herself? Though I suppose you could argue that she put Cybil somewhere out of the way so that Harry would not run into her.

[alone in the town]

The assumption that Harry would kill Cybil first?

It's a scenario that at least gives Harry a fighting chance. If he gets parasit'd, that's very likely a big game over.

[Droo]

Cybil's being attacked and overtaken by a parasite was unconscious on Alessa's part, due to how she viewed Cybil at that point. It wasn't about knowing that Puppet Cybil would try and kill Harry, it was that once she became frightened of Cybil, the Otherworld changed Cybil.

Alessa/Cheryl is divided. She will stop at nothing to prevent Dahlia from executing her plans, but she is still human. She ignores Cybil entirely up until this point, and while the monsters attack Harry, whether or not their aggression is directed by Alessa or just incidental by their nature is debatable. How do we know that the monsters attacking Harry is being mandated by Alessa? Is it not possible that her manifest fears are out of her control once manifested? It's not a question of not caring enough to stop the monsters from attacking Harry. Maybe she has no control.

Either way, Alessa has no great desire to see Harry or Cybil killed. However, Harry is her father, and she loves him, so she is much more reluctant to actively removed him than she is about Cybil. We also know that throughout the game Alessa does little things to help Harry. "To School." Rescuing him from his death at the beginning of the game (I know that this is a contentious point but I still believe it was Alessa who saves Harry from his "death" in the alleyway), giving him the key following the Lizard fight, giving Harry an escape route following the Incubus fight. If Alessa does have control over the monsters, and is directing them to attack Harry, there is still part of her that is pulling her punches. She is willing to kill Harry if it comes right down to it, but she would vastly prefer not to.

[DamienPales]

I don't think Alessa is controlling the monsters, I think that's that just what monsters do. I think if you take the Lizard fight into account, it's obvious that Alessa wanted Harry to win it, since she left an open book with the answer to its death for Harry to find. Plus, she smiles at him when he does defeat it. So in that sense, I totally agree with you.

I have just one little nitpick before I bow down and worship your theory. Who do you think tackled Cybil in the sewers? Was that Alessa? 'Cause if it was, it would seem that Alessa's taking down of Cybil is not subconscious at all, but a voluntary action on her part.